What are the pros and cons Defender v Puma v Disco3/4

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Originally Posted by P38ace

Getting away from the original post here but to try and answer the above concisely;

Stats are derived from facts. JD Power is a world leader in stats and is therefore well worth a read. The stats are derived from owner feedback.

Owners of all marques are asked the same questions and "Study results are tabulated using a “problems per 100 vehicles (PP100)” metric"

2010 Initial Quality Study Results | J.D. Power

Various studies are undertaken including initial quality (first 90 days) and dependability (3 years). It is not reliability which is studied (that's very subjective) but overall owner satisfaction.

Manufacturers certainly take notice of the results tables and for good reason, they are their paying customers opinion.

The worrying thing about LR's latest models is that the faults largely seem to be completely random failings so you never quite know what's going to go next. At lease with the Japs the faults seem to be consistent, and deemed to be design features !!!

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I think you are answering my own point, but you're not getting what my concern is......"derived from facts" The facts are there, you don't need to fabricate an outcome....although many do. It's what you do with those facts that is the issue and the question. How you 'tabulate' them? What really is owner satisfaction? It's like asking people "what is taste....in wine and music, etc"....it's so subjective. If it wasn't there would be a whole lot of cars that never sell!

Any owner of anything is going to be dissatisfied with stuff going wrong...anything at all. Have never said otherwise. The whole point of this thread is what car would you buy....Deefer, D series or otherwise. If you were looking for a car that produces nothing on a survey radar you probably wouldn't look at LR, or Nissan or BMW or Toyota....or...or....or.....so then it becomes a question of which one of these things are important issues. In other words, most people on this site are savvy enough to know that there will be issues if they buy a LR but if they want a car that will do the business, they are going to have to live with certain concerns......blown engines, transmissions, ****e off-road performance is not going to be one of them....well not from what I've read on D3/4/RRS! They have looked through the pros and cons and have purchased on that basis. I'm certain Deefer drivers have too.

And I shouldn't have mentioned 'That's why they keep selling'....that means nothing....marketing sells stuff. Manufacturers spend Brazillian $s to make that happen. You can have the best product in the world and a bad selling campaign will kill it....and vice versa. How many crap products are sold on a good hype.....?????

Am I ****ed about broken light fittings in my D4 and squeaky rubber in the suspension....damn right I am......but would I write it off as unrelliable and unable to perform......no chance!

That's my only point really.

P.S. and as PAT 303 stated...... So yes it would be interesting to see the fidelity of the next round of JD reports....as Toyos are now becoming more renown for concerns more than V8 diesels that drink more oil than a jet engine does AVTUR and blow other numerous 'serious' components.....

Mate, technically I'm not disagreeing with most that you say....it's just what is important with those facts, is often diluted or lost!


Completely random faults?.....dunno..........can't see the pattern.....LOL. ;-)

More fuel for the fire.... :whistling:

What Car? Reader Awards 2010 - Crossovers and 4x4s - Car and Car-Buying News - What Car?

Hi Naks, It was a nice surprise to see the the Atlantis Dunes pop up on AULRO. Love the way the D4 reversed that dune. (ex Cape Town, now living in Perth)

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Originally Posted by RoverHse

Hi Naks, It was a nice surprise to see the the Atlantis Dunes pop up on AULRO. Love the way the D4 reversed that dune. (ex Cape Town, now living in Perth)

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I agree some good footage thanks for the effort. But back to the original post I'm narrowing my thought's to a Puma or D4. The Defender is a great bit of kit but it appears apart from some minor build issues the Puma is a bit more liveable day to day.

On this assumption I am ruling the defender out unless some one can convince me otherwise.

In regard to the Puma I am trying to get my head around what would be best for touring for 2 adults and baby with a minimum of set up hassle a pop top station wagon or a 130 with a side on/off camper. The D4 to my knowledge would only have the option of a roof top tent but would be more user friendly in the city.

Has anyone got one of the above set ups ?

I'd say the slide off camper on a 130. You can leave it behind and go exploring without the bulk.
Roof top tents, side awnings, pop top caper style tops all suffer some form of immobilisation of the vehicle once they are set up.
I could imaging it being a real pain if your young one develops some medical attention one evening, and you have to drop and pack up the vehicle mounted accommodation to go into town.

To add to your Puma considerations, I bought a 130 puma with the heart. Sadly I have to say I'm not sure if I would purchase another. It has suffered a significant electrical issue that has seen it in the shop for a 2 week and 3 week period chasing the same fault, and only 1500klm on it. A defender being the most basic current land rover I can't comprehend how long a D3 or 4 would take to be fixed. But if it ****s itself again I will sell it.

We bought it for a tourer and I must say I have lost faith in it presently. In hindsight I would buy an earlier defender in good nick and recondition it.

This is my second electrical dependant 4x4, one Jap, and one Eng, and both have had electrics as the main cause of failure. I think I could accept less performance, economy, and things that beep for more reliability.
For me from my experience, no matter what you buy if it contains modern electrics and it plays up, it will be on a tilt tray back to base. Which is a pain in the city, but full of touring gear, out woop woop, will trash the travel plans faster than a death in the family.

I would just like to thank everyone the has contributed to this thread so far. The owner comment and real world issues have been deeply appreciated. My P38 is in the shop have a snorkel fitted and I will post photo's of the results.

If any one has bought or experienced a defender or Puma pop top camper either locally or German made I would be very interested in your experiences. . . Regards Captain

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Originally Posted by Captain HSE 4.6 2000

... If any one has bought or experienced a defender or Puma pop top camper either locally or German made I would be very interested in your experiences. . . Regards Captain

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May be worth sending a PM to mallefowl (Mary) who has a Mulgo poptop conversion that she seems very happy with. Not sure how often she logs on, thus the PM suggestion.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

Hello Captain,

PM or email me, I can give you contact details of a customer with a Mulgo pop top on a puma Defender.

Cheers,
Daniel