Thread: What are the pros and cons Defender v Puma v Disco3/4

I'll try and keep it simple

I cover high mileages and have owned a 90 Turbo, a D1 Tdi, 2 x 4.6 HSE P38's & a L322 Supercharged, (and also 5 Landcruisers which I prefer not to mention) .

I now have a brand new 110 Puma and have never been happier. People I speak to keep comparing comfort and speed of the Defender against other cars.

Speed.
All I say to them is that the Defender will cruise at the national speed limit very easily. How fast do you need to get there?

Comfort.
This depends how you define comfort. My definition is the peace of mind I get from the low purchase price, low fuel consumption, negligible depreciation, long service life, no complexity and easy repairability. Aside from that it's also really comfortable to sit in over long distances. It's not the quietest, but so what. You can even drive with the window open with little noise increase and smell the scenery which is a bit of a novelty.

The Defender is the last man standing, nothing else on the market is as robust. I need a 4WD and have bought one as a longer term proposition because vehicle complexity can only get worse. Buy anything else and you need to replace it every 3 years before the warranty runs out.

Good luck with your decision.

Well,a puma-D3-4 is an expensive bush basher and Tdi-Td5 defenders aren't as good on long trips or around town.You'll have to decide weather you want a bush vehicle or an allrounder or you'll have a vehicle that is a comprimise between the two.If you like the P38 maybe build a Td5 D2 version. Pat

I've got a TD5 oldish defender and a newish puma defender. The PUMA is a big improvement comfort wise. But all of that is relative - as I found the original TD5 quite comfortable. You either fit the defender or you don't.

There are a couple of things about the PUMA that I would consider as inferior to the TD5. And this is all from my experience with my two vehicles - so may vary depending on who you talk to.

1. The TD5 is better put together - there is sealant where sealant should be. The panel seams around the seat boxes are sealed. It sucks less dust in because the factory did not save $5 on a tube of sikaflex.
2. The PUMA has bits stuck on that used to be screwed on - that now fall off... Light reflectors etc.
3. I seriously question the safety of the PUMA common rail diesel engine on outback fuel. The fuel filter can only cope with 40cc of water before it allows water through. There is no light sensor warning of a flooded fuel filter. The engine fuel system will **** itself if it gets water in it - the fuel regulator over pressures and you get warning lights galore. The repair bill in this situation can go up to $10,000 if your dealer is being nice. My understanding is that the TD5 unitary injector system is much more immune to these sorts of issues - to the point it will run on kerosene without issue.
4. The PUMA engine has little room for performance tuning - it's already had it's neck wrung. Not to say it's lacking - it's not - in fact it's surprisingly quick.
5. The TD5 sounds nicer. Well it does to me - I can recognise a TD5 from 100m away. The new PUMA's are just an awful 4 cylinder drone. I drive both vehicles regularly and I'd go so far as to say the TD5 is quieter than the PUMA. Maybe I've just got a crap PUMA....

So if it were me and based on my experience - I'd forgoe some of the nicer comforts of the PUMA, and get a nice used TD5. With the money saved - I'd get it rebuilt the way it should have been in the first place with an automatic box from a D2a... Well that's what I'm gong to do with my td5.

Thanks for your sound advice, I bought a L322 TD6 2004 for the better Half. It's great on the highway and in the odd paddock bog hole. Did you take yours on any serious trips and how did you fair. I'm considering taking it along as a second vehicle to the cape but have concerns about it and creek crossings. . . plus I can change a airbag on a p38 but if you damage a strut on the L322 my understanding is it's replace the hole unit.

This issue I believe would also apply to the D3 and D4 i.e how to fix them out bush ( D3,D4 owners please correct me if I am wrong).

This fixability issue is my key concern with all the new Discoveries and Range Rovers.

Defender/Puma owners this this is one of your biggest advantages in your vehicle type.

Regards CAPT

Originally Posted by P38ace

I'll try and keep it simple

I cover high mileages and have owned a 90 Turbo, a D1 Tdi, 2 x 4.6 HSE P38's & a L322 Supercharged, (and also 5 Landcruisers which I prefer not to mention) .

I now have a brand new 110 Puma and have never been happier. People I speak to keep comparing comfort and speed of the Defender against other cars.

Speed.
All I say to them is that the Defender will cruise at the national speed limit very easily. How fast do you need to get there?

Comfort.
This depends how you define comfort. My definition is the peace of mind I get from the low purchase price, low fuel consumption, negligible depreciation, long service life, no complexity and easy repairability. Aside from that it's also really comfortable to sit in over long distances. It's not the quietest, but so what. You can even drive with the window open with little noise increase and smell the scenery which is a bit of a novelty.

The Defender is the last man standing, nothing else on the market is as robust. I need a 4WD and have bought one as a longer term proposition because vehicle complexity can only get worse. Buy anything else and you need to replace it every 3 years before the warranty runs out.

Good luck with your decision.

I've got a Puma D90 which I use as an every day driver and I am kitting up as a 2 person touring vehicle. It needs little other than removing the rear seats, auxiliary fuel tank(s), dual batteries and a roof rack. The engine is excellent and better than my TD5 Discovery (and I think that it is brilliant). First gear is very low and if you want to get away quickly from the lights, you can just start in second. Acceleration (once moving) is very good. More than enough power to easily to exceed the speed limit on the freeway. Pulling power and load carrying is legendary. Will the Puma be as reliable as a TD5 Defender? Only time will tell, but my money is on the Puma. The D90 has good vision and is zippy and easy to handle in peak hour traffic. I suspect much more so than a D130 would be however.

Cheers
KarlB

I have a Puma SVX that I use as the long distance haul vehicle, pulls the boat, little noise ect. We found a top ninty TD5, low ks, never used off road and spent lots of money at it, all the off road conversions. The son got the bug, parks his very modified STI Subaru in the car port 6 days a week and he bought a TD Disco3. I drove it home from Melbourne with him and must say, after just selling a Jag v8, on the road it is on of the best vehicles I have driven. Off Road this thing stays with the wifes 90. I was shocked at its performance and the way it does it, I thought after all the hype it was all show, through tough rock/mud holes it holds its own. It does have A/T's but also has the air suspension/elec TC not the normal springs and shocks Defender owners are used to. I think it all comes down to how skilled you are at driving these vehicles and how little you wish to damage them. I dont think I would drive my SVX through 2 mtr of mud, but in the 90? I would take a Disco, any series, to the same off road places as a Defender, any model, but with both vehicles the right driver training.


Allan

Some very good comments above - the one that particularly makes me smile is "either you fit the Defender or you don't."
You might not be looking for a Defender from the mid 90's, but I'll throw this in anyway....
We were really fortunate to pick up a '94 200tdi 110 defender earlier this year and we haven't looked back (our previous model was a '71 SIIa 109). The Leader of the Opposition and I drove her back from Sydney without any additional mechanical adjustments (not including checking the oils etc of course) and the worst part for us was the fact that we were travelling extremely light and didn't have enough time to enjoy the adventure across Australia without the usual additional 3 kids.
Comfort?
As has been mentioned numerous times in various threads and also above, Comfort is relative. On our trip over (and subsequent trips out of Perth), we haven't felt the discomfort of prolonged sitting that we feel in other vehicle types.
Speed?
You already know that these are not sports cars and it doesn't matter what you do, you'll never accelerate quickly from a standing start - its a Land Rover - designed and built for endurance and getting you to where it is you're driving to; its not a sports car......
Economy - well I can't complain about our girl - with the standard 80l tank and LPG addition, we drove 4,437kms across Australia using 303 ltrs of diesel and 120 ltrs of lpg - yes we were travelling light, but that hasn't made enough difference as we regularly travel with a full car of 5 POB + 1 small dog, cargo area full of camping gear plus tent, canoe and a few other items on the roof, averaging 800km's per tank.

While our's hasn't got all the 'fruit' for tackling extreme locations that many consider necessary, it is more than capable of getting us up the beach, through the bush along mud, rock and broken difficult ground and home again. Pick the course, know your limits (specifically your driving abilities) and enjoy.

Owning a Defender someone once said, was a choice of the heart, not of the head. To some it just doesn't make sense.

And as P38ace states - "vehicle complexity can only get worse" so regardless of which you buy, they'll all cost and you'll continue to spend $$ - its a lifestyle choice.

All the best and enjoy....

Allen I understand the SVX has leather seats and trim and extra sound proofing (any other distinguishing mods?) and these don't like mud etc, but why wouldn't you use the vehicle off road ? In case you flooded it etc if you got bogged ? (I wouldn't try and sink my P38 either LOL)