Whats wrong with Puma rear diffs

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Originally Posted by Tikirocker

I spoke to a Landy mechanic about this a few weeks back ... he was lamenting the horrid diffs in the late models and praising my rear Salisbury. I don't get why companies go backwards in the engineering stakes ... but then again I guess it creates a thriving parts industry if you do!

Simon.

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An absolute disgrace !
As far as I can determin only LandRover goes backwards in the mechanical, and structural engineering stakes.The Puma diffs origins can be traced back to the first LandRover in 1948 and even earlier Rover cars. Except they fitted a 4 pinion carrier and shortened the distance between the pinion bearings,for a vehicle about double the weight and triple the torque of the originals.
The spiral bevel crownwheel and pinion design was pretty much obsolete in the 1940s, yet Land Rover are still using them 70 years later despite 62 years customer feedback and complaints due to thousands of diff and halfshaft failures all over the world.
Pretenders are marketed as heavy duty working 4wds in the same league as toyota Landcruisers and Nissan Patrols. Things are crook when a diff from the much lighter duty Toyota Hilux is used as strength upgrade when fitted LandRover axle housings!
Wagoo.

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Originally Posted by wagoo

An absolute disgrace !
As far as I can determin only LandRover goes backwards in the mechanical, and structural engineering stakes.The Puma diffs origins can be traced back to the first LandRover in 1948 and even earlier Rover cars. Except they fitted a 4 pinion carrier and shortened the distance between the pinion bearings,for a vehicle about double the weight and triple the torque of the originals.
The spiral bevel crownwheel and pinion design was pretty much obsolete in the 1940s, yet Land Rover are still using them 70 years later despite 62 years customer feedback and complaints due to thousands of diff and halfshaft failures all over the world.
Pretenders are marketed as heavy duty working 4wds in the same league as toyota Landcruisers and Nissan Patrols. Things are crook when a diff from the much lighter duty Toyota Hilux is used as strength upgrade when fitted LandRover axle housings!
Wagoo.

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Yep its an issue, nicely put Wagoo. Perhaps Tata will change this situation one can only live and hope, mean while I'll spend less and stick to my Tdi and put a late model isuzu motor and gearbox combination in it. Cost far less than buying an underengineered vehicle with compromised engineering standards.

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Originally Posted by garryseries3

Yep its an issue, nicely put Wagoo. Perhaps Tata will change this situation one can only live and hope, mean while I'll spend less and stick to my Tdi and put a late model isuzu motor and gearbox combination in it. Cost far less than buying an underengineered vehicle with compromised engineering standards.

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Yes, as bizarre as it sounds, I wouldnt be surprised if Indian ownership/possible production results in quality improvements:eek:

Although based on the quality of some of the Indian made aftermarket parts I've been stupid enough to purchase, maybe not....

I wonder if it is an attempt to reduce mass (to compensate for changing panels to steel?).

More likely, rationalising to reduce the number of special parts for a low production vehicle.

As far as I am aware there are no operational reasons for replacing the salisbury, and I find it difficult to believe the cost is significantly different.

Another possibility is that the salisburys were bought in, and have become unavailable.

It needs to be remembered that the Defender is produced in vastly smaller numbers than its major competitors, and by a company which is not a major car manufacturer. This places many constraints on what can be done.

John

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Originally Posted by skoller

I have had my rear diff replaced 3 times and it needs to be done again.A report has gone into LR from the dealer,so I await the reply.Two of the diffs didnt even last till I got home which is 50 k from the dealers.
Whats wrong with them ,are they special.Its not as if they have to design something new,they are on every vehicle in the world.

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Might be time to bite the bullet and fit an ARB or similar, they are much better than the std LR diffs.

I am lucky, I have a pre P38 TD5 110 rear which has the Salisbury, I then fitted a detroit locker, I still managed to snap both shafts though, the crap 2 pin front diff lasted less than 10k before I replaced it with an ARB and 130k later it is still going strong.

It might be worth trying to cut a deal with them, you supply the ARB locker and they fit it, that way it will be a win/win situation, you get a stronger rear diff which will last once the warrenty has expired with the bonus of it being a locker and they have you out of their hair with regards to diff problems.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

I wonder if it is an attempt to reduce mass (to compensate for changing panels to steel?).

More likely, rationalising to reduce the number of special parts for a low production vehicle.

As far as I am aware there are no operational reasons for replacing the salisbury, and I find it difficult to believe the cost is significantly different.

Another possibility is that the salisburys were bought in, and have become unavailable.

It needs to be remembered that the Defender is produced in vastly smaller numbers than its major competitors, and by a company which is not a major car manufacturer. This places many constraints on what can be done.

John

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The Salisburies were bought in. Salisbury is part of Dana Spicer and the LandRover version is basically a variant of a Dana model 60, many hundreds of thousands of which were produced for US built pick up trucks and some high performance cars for around 40 years. They are still available and probably always will be. It really stinks what LandRover have done to the Pretender. The engineers or accountants responsible should be strung up by their family jewels in a public place, and every interested LandRover owner invited along to pelt them with rotten tomatoes.:mad::mad::mad:
Wagoo.

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Originally Posted by cols110

Might be time to bite the bullet and fit an ARB or similar, they are much better than the std LR diffs.

I am lucky, I have a pre P38 TD5 110 rear which has the Salisbury, I then fitted a detroit locker, I still managed to snap both shafts though, the crap 2 pin front diff lasted less than 10k before I replaced it with an ARB and 130k later it is still going strong.

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It might be worth trying to cut a deal with them, you supply the ARB locker and they fit it, that way it will be a win/win situation, you get a stronger rear diff which will last once the warrenty has expired with the bonus of it being a locker and they have you out of their hair with regards to diff problems.

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Good luck dealers wont do it....it voids warranty for the axle.
tried that one

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Originally Posted by cols110

Might be time to bite the bullet and fit an ARB or similar, they are much better than the std LR diffs.

I am lucky, I have a pre P38 TD5 110 rear which has the Salisbury, I then fitted a detroit locker, I still managed to snap both shafts though, the crap 2 pin front diff lasted less than 10k before I replaced it with an ARB and 130k later it is still going strong.

It might be worth trying to cut a deal with them, you supply the ARB locker and they fit it, that way it will be a win/win situation, you get a stronger rear diff which will last once the warrenty has expired with the bonus of it being a locker and they have you out of their hair with regards to diff problems.

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The ARB isn't going to make it any more reliable, the crownwheel design is the problem. The carrier is actually very strong, so the air locker won't help here. The first one I did had an airlocker fitted from 800km old, the pinion brg failed at 12K, LR actually repaired it as the ARB fitment doesn't touch the pinion, and it failed again 5000km later, taking the crownwheel with it:mad: .

I then fitted a sals with ARB and Maxi axles etc and all is happy now:)

JC

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Originally Posted by dullbird

Good luck dealers wont do it....it voids warranty for the axle.
tried that one

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I'd rather have an axle that's reliable and therefore doesn't need a warranty than one that is unreliable and spends a good deal of its life being repaired?

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Originally Posted by Xtreme

I'd rather have an axle that's reliable and therefore doesn't need a warranty than one that is unreliable and spends a good deal of its life being repaired?

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See JC's post above yours - it won't help.

Ask stig000 (or whatever his name is) about all the problems he had after fitting an ARB to his late td5.