Thread: Drivetrain lash - Puma

is this puma only,

05 td5 131k

18mm

why dont you count the front, there is more places for back lash to show its self, i get maby about 10deg of prop tern,

If you still have all four wheels on the ground your'e really only going to measure the diff lash by doing it like that.

I think to measure the total lash in the drive train, you would need to lift one wheel and measure it's free rotation with the gearbox IN gear. This will measure the total of FRONT diff, REAR DIFF and Center DIFF, including transfer case and all both prop shafts and any free play in the gearbox. The free rotation would be multiplied by the 4.11 diff ratio, but would give you something to compare. I suspect that in the PUMA there is extra lash from the excessively poor diff's.

I thought back lash just came with the territory of being a defender owner.

Try driving another one and see if there is a difference, I think you will find they all have quite a bit from the factory and it just get worse with age.

Fit a detroit locker in the rear and you will really get to feel what back lash feels like through the drive line.

Just for Interest, heard of a guy with 08 puma, he got the clutch replaced under warranty (suprise suprise) but he was amazed he said now he does not have any driveline backlash, it has all dissappeared, he is very pleased.
Why could this help?

Originally Posted by sashadidi

Just for Interest, heard of a guy with 08 puma, he got the clutch replaced under warranty (suprise suprise) but he was anazed hesail now he does not have any driveline backlash, it has all dissappeared, he is very pleased.
Why could this help?

I think it depends what exactly was wrong with the clutch. But once the clutch is working correctly you're going to get much smoother driving on the whole as a faulty clutch is going to make gear changes clunkier knocking the drivetrain around.

Too many variables here.
Not too sure there is much point in comparing a Puma with a td5 or a 90 with a 110 or a 130 etc. and what years?

.

Originally Posted by miky

Too many variables here.
Not too sure there is much point in comparing a Puma with a td5 or a 90 with a 110 or a 130 etc. and what years?

.

Oh I can't help myself.
Personally I think there is every reason to collect data like this; provided there is linkage back to the vehicle that the data was collected from. Now let me explain why!

If we knew what is an acceptable value of turn from the front and rear prop shafts then you could hit your dealer up with it!! And you could also use it to identified worn components dependant on where the 'slop' came from. Key wear areas to be checked in order are:
1. Rear Axle splines to drive hub - many are not lubricated correctly from the factory and cause wear in both the axle and hub. Pretty easy to identify with help by turning the rear prop shaft while looking at axel ends.
2. Rear diff assy - if the axels are ok then removing the rear prop shaft at the diff end allows the rear diff slop to be measured. Excessive slop will almost always put down to the spider (side) gear wear although the pinion bearing crush may have relaxed. Bearing wear of a measureable magnitude should be represented in diff failure by now.
3. Rear Prop shaft - If the rear diff is ok (when we find an acceptable measurement) then throw on the handbrake and test the rear prop shaft for slop. Any slop greater than a few millimetres should be investigated and should be limited to either the universal Joints or the sliding joint. Refurbish as necessary. A good prop shaft will have near to no movement.
4. Front Axels - Repeat step 1, but using the front prop shaft to generate movement. If the axel turns inside the hub at all you have worn splines.
5. Front diff - This is a bit more complicated because you have briffield joints (constant velocity) in the front end swivels. But if the axels are ok and turning the prop shaft shows excessive slop then to identify where it is means axels out (check the joints); if not the joints then pull the diff. Like the rear diff the most likely culprit is the diff side gears or shims, if not then pinion bearings.
6. Centre Diff - Hand brake on, turn front prop shaft at the t/case end and measure the movement. Engage the diff lock, re-measure. What you are comparing is the movement in the dog clutch against the movement in the centre diff. If deemed excessive (what was that figure?) then your centre diff may need shimming or the bearing crush adjusted.
7. Front Prop shaft - Repeat step 3, but using the front prop shaft.....
8. Gearbox Output shaft - Ok, this is the last place to look for drive train slop and can really only be done by removing the cover from the PTO opening. Place the vehicle in gear and rock slowly forward and back and looking for movement between the gearbox output shaft and the transfer case input gear. If movement is picked up then it may be an expensive fix.
9. If you do all of the above and it seems ok then you need to start looking a suspension bushes starting at the back ball joint!

Now if we did know what was a good reading for a rover diff, Salisbury diff, Centre diff etc. then you could start making Land rover fix these issues.

I drove a Puma 130 at our local dealer and it had terrible drive train play at approx 30 000 km on the clock. Much more than my 1999 TD5 Extreme with 365 000 km (and only bearing/cup replacements in the transfer case.
My 2 cents worth.

I was aiming for Pumas but will take whatever numbers are on offer.

Happy to open things up to more detailed measurements but want to keep getting the original measurement as I suspect that this captures the effect people are actually feeling when the describe slack during driving - though I'm open to persuasion.

Thanks, Stig -I'll take the front measurement this weekend.