Thread: 2012 Defender Details released

Originally Posted by frantic

...
... Landrover should put in a decent marketplace competitive engine in the defender to be taken seriously when they say they want to increase sales. Jeep wrankeler gets a merc 2.8td, toymotor troopy gets a de-tuned 4.4 td, their prado/lux both get a 3.0td , niss and mit both have a 2.5 with around 140kw

The problem is that Jaguar-Land Rover is considered a European manufacturer and under Euro Environmental laws (which calculate emmissions across total volumes of all models in the range) and without a micro-car to offset the greenhouse emissions of the larger Jaguars/L322/RRS/D4 the Freeloader and Defender have to be crippled by small capacity engines. The Thai assembled Ford Ranger is not calculated in Ford's European production, so they can put anything they want in it.

The best hope for us to get a larger capacity engine in the Defender is for production to be based out of India or elsewhere in Asia. So your choice will be a micro engine UK built Defender or an Indian built Defender with an Indian built diesel.

But landrover are owned by tata the makers of the nano, the sub $3k car with a 623cc engine!! this would easily make up for a 3.2 td in a defender selling 50-100k units a year, compared to the planned 1 million nano's

Originally Posted by KarlB

From mother's mouth: NEW DIESEL ENGINE POWERS THE CLEANEST EVER DEFENDER FOR 2012

Cheers
KarlB

From that webpage: "A new, full acoustic engine cover replaces the previous splash cover, reducing radiated engine noise and improving driving refinement"

I was just thinking the other day that my Puma could really do with some improved driving refinement... the kind you get from an engine cover. And now I find that Land Rover were listening - how good is that!
I wonder if I can get one and retrofit it?

Originally Posted by frantic

But landrover are owned by tata the makers of the nano, the sub $3k car with a 623cc engine!! this would easily make up for a 3.2 td in a defender selling 50-100k units a year, compared to the planned 1 million nano's

But nano is not made/assembled in the UK or elsewhere in the EU so it may as well be a Ford Ranger made in Thailand. If it created any offsets at all it would only be for those sold in the EU and one wonders how efficient it would be against EU competitors like the smart car. And. If the Nano was included, you would also have to include the rest of the Tata production and you can bet most are not very efficient, or are already calculated in the FIAT figures for the engine manufacturing joint venture.

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

the Freeloader and Defender have to be crippled by small capacity engines.

Agree the Defender needs a bigger engine. The FL2 crippled??? You must not have driven a diesel one, not lacking in the engine department at all.

Here's a brief history from what I understand happened over the last 2 decades.

Land Rover stopped making engines in 2006 at the Solihull Plant. Where the Td5, 300Tdi was still underproduction. The Td5 and 300Tdi was the last "Rover" Engines.

It was started in 1993 when "Rover Group Ltd" was still owned by BAE systems. Solihull actually was Tooled to produce both the L Series Diesel and Td5 on the same line. This all fell apart when BMW refused to develop the Td4 and Td6 "Storm" Engines leaving only the Td5 which was already signed off for the coming Disco2 leaving BMW no choice to continue. BMW supplied the Camshaft and Split fractured Conrods for the Td5 which inturn identical ones were used for the L Series Diesel. Seeing development on the Td4 and Td6 was haulted the Range Rover L322 and Freelander facelifts devloped under BMW used BMW engines and the Rover 75 also used a BMW Diesel. (Which came back to haunt Rover)

Come the sale to Ford - Rover Group was split off and sold to to the Phoenix consortium. Now under Ford Ownership Land Rover Released the Disco 3 (All ford diesels) FL2 again Ford/PSA Diesels joint venture, and RR Sport (ford diesels) Defender finally as we know got a Ford engine in 2007 just before the sale which was the 2.4L Tdci Puma ZSD Engine in 2011 with the upcoming EU5 standards and the End-Of-Line for the 2.4 as the Transit was no longer having a 2.4 as an option. The 2.2L Tdci Puma ZSD Engine was the only option. If they had sold a year earlier perhaps we would all be driving EU5 Td5 engines with DPFs!

During this time Rover Group or now MGR "MG Rover" were busy developing there New G-Series engine which was an heavy refinement to the L-Series with Common Rail Direct Injection. Sadly for poor old rover they lost all there R&D team to Ford/Land Rover due to the fact the Gaydon, Warwickshire Design and Company HQ went to Land Rover. Also another blow to Rover was that the Td5 Project "Storm" stayed with LR so the grand plan of having 3 engines of 2.0L 2.5L and 3.0L for the "Suite of Rover Group products Cars and 4x4" was a distant memory of the early 1990s.

All Rover had to work with into the 2000s was a L Series. The the BMW engine still in the 75 they had to get it out due to the fact BMW was charging a absobantat amount for the engines and for a company that was trying to recover this was not good. The G-Series was a unbelievable step with Siemens Common Rail Direct injection. The G-Series was signed off for Production and almost 99.9% of tooling was completed in 2005 when only a few weeks later the company went bank rupt.

The chain reaction that started all of this was BMW

On a positive side

Land Rover is planning to get back into engine development in the next 2 years we are likely to see the opening of a UK Engine Factory. So no they won't be made in India.
They are seriously trying to cut there ties with Ford much like the issues Ford had trying to cut there ties with BMW. Which is going to be very very hard considering that alot of the components used in the Disco3 platform are ford. Even the wheel hubs are ford!

Also the Rover name is owned by JLR not the Chinese so with Tata looking at making cars in england. What would be the best name to use? Tata? It's almost certainty to be Rover.

Future Tata-JLR products could benefit from ‘Joint engine development program’ | IndianCarsBikes.in

Thanks LR053

It all makes a lot of sense, but doesn't auger well for a larger engined Defender if they build the new engines in the EU (something we have been asking for since the Series Land Rovers in the 1960's) and the only decent results were the V8 started in the Stage 1 and the 4BD1 engined Stage 1 & 110 we built in Oz.

BTW I was wondering why the Chinese were using the name Cherry and not Rover.

Diana

Yes a larger engine defender would be nice, As you know the only real reason's for such small engines is the emissions standards of Europe. Don't forgot you could still by a 300Tdi Rest of World spec upto 2006 only real reason it stopped was the of Td5 Dash, Gearbox, Gearbox tunnel, Seatbox, Bulkhead(Firewall) finished in 2007 as well.

(Brand New 300Tdi Defenders)
New Land Rover Defender 110 Station Wagon 5 door, RHD // EX ARMY vehicles for sale Land Rover

Yes the Chinese bought all the tooling for the Rover 25, 45 and 75 and shipped it back to china from the Longbridge Factory. They are sold as Rowe's in China.

They also got the K Series and L Series Engines tooling and Cad drawings, From what i understand they also got Rovers secret successor to the Rover 200,400 25/45 vehicles. This vehicle was in pre production stage but Rover did not have the money to bring it into production as it should of be launched a whole 3 years before they went bankrupt.


The thing BMW did not know in all of this is that Rover Post 1948 could not survive on it's own, This was apprant right from when the Land Rover came out in 1948. Rover needed Land Rover and Land Rover needed Rover