Thread: TD5 or PUMA? The perpetual question!

Great posting everyone. I wish I had one of each and every model Land Rover, But the TDCi will do beautifully until one fine day when my collection begins.

Tact..

I just drove ~8000km taking the gunbarrel hwy and other pounding trails through the center and back to Melbourne in a very well maintained tdi and two pumas (none towing). Rotating cars for research we found not much has changed over the years. The tdci was better up hills at highway speeds and the tdi more fun on dirt at speed with diff lock as the only traction aid.

Noise level difference was negligible, most noise at 110kph being wind noise.

Dash on pumas take more space, less customisable but sturdier on corrugations.

Suspension, handling differences does not factor. Same set up and customisation available across the years. The tdi was better but it was not original spring/shocks.

Tdci is not fast but short throw gearbox and better spread of ratios gets the best out of the motor and makes it feel less 'truck like' to drive. But we noticed the ecu on the pedal, smoothing and dipping the throttle input. We all noticed a lag when hitting the pedal after gear change on both pumas.

So a tdci is not superior in every way over previous defenders because it is mostly the same. It has slightly more power through the gears, less rattle in the dash and better aircon delivery. That is about all our group flagged as improvement. The tdci has lost bulkhead vents, platform/spare bonnet and simplicity.

we found the tdci easier to cruise on the highway but all five drivers preferred the tdi offroad for its pure control and drivers feel.

All three vehicles completed the trip without issue, having taken a real pounding. One of the pumas failed to start and had to be pushed out of the way - then it started... cause unknown, but not an issue in the end.

If you are looking to tow around australia - get the most recent defender you can afford. If looking to drive to Africa, build up a tdi or county.

Originally Posted by JayBoRover

You forgot the lovely growl of a V8 101FC

Yes apols, never driven a V8...

Originally Posted by manic

Tact..

I just drove ~8000km taking the gunbarrel hwy and other pounding trails through the center and back to Melbourne in a very well maintained tdi and two pumas (none towing). Rotating cars for research we found not much has changed over the years. The tdci was better up hills at highway speeds and the tdi more fun on dirt at speed with diff lock as the only traction aid.

Noise level difference was negligible, most noise at 110kph being wind noise.

Dash on pumas take more space, less customisable but sturdier on corrugations.

Suspension, handling differences does not factor. Same set up and customisation available across the years. The tdi was better but it was not original spring/shocks.

Tdci is not fast but short throw gearbox and better spread of ratios gets the best out of the motor and makes it feel less 'truck like' to drive. But we noticed the ecu on the pedal, smoothing and dipping the throttle input. We all noticed a lag when hitting the pedal after gear change on both pumas.

So a tdci is not superior in every way over previous defenders because it is mostly the same. It has slightly more power through the gears, less rattle in the dash and better aircon delivery. That is about all our group flagged as improvement. The tdci has lost bulkhead vents, platform/spare bonnet and simplicity.

we found the tdci easier to cruise on the highway but all five drivers preferred the tdi offroad for its pure control and drivers feel.

All three vehicles completed the trip without issue, having taken a real pounding. One of the pumas failed to start and had to be pushed out of the way - then it started... cause unknown, but not an issue in the end.

If you are looking to tow around australia - get the most recent defender you can afford. If looking to drive to Africa, build up a tdi or county.

I've been waiting patiently for a response like this. The Defender hasn't actually changed that much over the decades, aside from powertrain and dashboard. The idea that a new one somehow rides better, handles at speed better or has less rattles than an old one is simply because it is NEW. Bushes are new, shocks are new, steering box is new etc.

Been funny reading the responses though.

Originally Posted by steane

I've been waiting patiently for a response like this. The Defender hasn't actually changed that much over the decades, aside from powertrain and dashboard. The idea that a new one somehow rides better, handles at speed better or has less rattles than an old one is simply because it is NEW. Bushes are new, shocks are new, steering box is new etc.

Been funny reading the responses though.

Yes a good write up. If not much has changed then that cuts both ways.

I say "if" because I really wouldn't know the full story on what has changed and what has not. I am one of those "a TDCi is my first Defender" blokes.

Maybe TDCi's are only better handling because they are new. Maybe they only make more power because they are new.

But if every good thing about a TDCi is - just because its new and nothing else is is changed much: Then by definition, in every way the TDCi is superior than all its predecessors - simply because its not.... old.

Yes you can recondition an old defender and perhaps even bring it back to showroom newness. Yes you can improve on an old defender with aftermarket products.

You can do that with a TDCi too. (when it gets old and tired, barely able to do 100kmh, and scares the bejeezus out of you at speed)

But before we all start the group hugs and sing kumbaya - all that "not much has changed" stuff is just bollocks.

- electrickery
- engine
- gearbox
- NVH engineering

A 2008 TDCI would be considered old by some. A 2013 is getting old and I doubt the TDCI ages any better than the older models. The 2008 TDCI on our trip was wandering all over the place with loose steering and leaked into the footwells when it rained.... Same old story.

NVH engineering - hahaha gold!

Tact - As a TDCI first defender bloke you should know that the defender coming out the showroom today is essentially the same build as day one, only now they are further behind the times than ever before.

You cannot say that the new tdci powered defender is superior to the older motors because it has not stood the same test of time. The TDCI is not a land rover engine and years in the future when looking back in hindsight, the TDCI may not be looked at in highest regard.

But you are right, it's hard to beat a brand new defender!

Originally Posted by steane

I've been waiting patiently for a response like this. The Defender hasn't actually changed that much over the decades, aside from powertrain and dashboard. The idea that a new one somehow rides better, handles at speed better or has less rattles than an old one is simply because it is NEW. Bushes are new, shocks are new, steering box is new etc.

Been funny reading the responses though.

If you think so. Pat

Has anyone done 200,000km in a TDCI? Interested to know how engine/gearbox are feeling at middle age?

Obviously the body, chassis and dynamics haven't changed, but quietness and smoothness have changed a little. But mercifly not too much! ...Otherwise it would be a 'new' Defender!

Everything definately loosens up. Rattles. My 2014 already has classic Defender body creaks over rough terrain. Flex. Like an airplane. Love it. Character and smooth humble power. The Defender TDCI is beautiful.