Thread: 2.5 years and 4 clutches. Soon will need another. My Puma

Originally Posted by lr110qld

It seems strange that changing hyd fluid can fix a slipping clutch!

I have found a different problem on one of my clutch's that has had plenty of work before It was removed.

The clutch was slipping and I changed both the cylinders, but at that stage not the clutch it's self, the slipping when changing up a gear and pulling hard (traffic lights) was nearly nonexistent and I left it for a while.

The slipping came back with a vengeance, then the clutch pedal altered it's working position quickly, so I had to investigated why and after pulling the gearbox fearing a punctured throwout lever , I found nothing wrong with the clutch at all!!
It was showing some signs of wear but it could have kept going for a long time still.

I replaced the gearbox, with a new clutch kit, as the C/D needed attention and wasn't until I started to work on another gearbox that I borrowed some bits from the box awaiting the C/D rebuild and I found the problem as to why the clutch was slipping.

The throwout race slides back and forth on a sleeve, which is made from a soft alloy and over time a shoulder wears into the sleeve where the throwout race ends up resting.

As the clutch linings wear, the fingers of the pressure plate raise slightly out of the pressure plate, therefore the throwout race rests in a spot closer to the gear box and if that wear shoulder becomes too obstructive the throwout can't release properly that caused the clutch mechanism to remain in tension that then allowed the plate to start slipping.

The rattle was noticeable in the clutch before I changed the gearbox and clutch kit. There has been no issue with the clutch slipping and neither has there been any rattle from the clutch since.

By changing the clutch fluid to one with a better lubricating quality, could be allowing the piston in the slave cylinder return more easily to the rest position and not keeping the clutch mechanism on with some slight tension.
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Originally Posted by Naks

...but for the most part it's always clutch pedal in when starting and stopping the engine.

Naks mate,

That is possibly the worst thing you can do with a diesel engine's clutch...

I have always been told to never, never have the clutch depressed on starting and stopping. Place it in neutral and start or stop with your foot off the clutch.

Just to make sure I'm not talking nonsense, I've just had a conversation and confirmation from my diesel workshop manager (I work in Civil Construction). The pressures you exert on the clutch with it depressed during start and stop will damage the clutch and might very well very have contributed your failures.

My car is almost the same age as yours (about three months older if I remember correctly) and I've also got a BAS map and I've not had a hint of problems with my clutch or gearbox since new...

Cheers,

Lou

Originally Posted by Loubrey

Naks mate,

That is possibly the worst thing you can do with a diesel engine's clutch...

I have always been told to never, never have the clutch depressed on starting and stopping. Place it in neutral and start or stop with your foot off the clutch.

Just to make sure I'm not talking nonsense, I've just had a conversation and confirmation from my diesel workshop manager (I work in Civil Construction). The pressures you exert on the clutch with it depressed during start and stop will damage the clutch and might very well very have contributed your failures.

My car is almost the same age as yours (about three months older if I remember correctly) and I've also got a BAS map and I've not had a hint of problems with my clutch or gearbox since new...

Cheers,

Lou

I have always depressed the clutch when starting and stopping an engine (not just in my 2007 Puma, No dramas' so far), and being a diesel mechanic myself for 30 years, I have never heard of this damaging a clutch? I can't see why it would cause damage, if anything it will take some load off the starter as it's not trying to turn the transmission as well.
Would be interesting to hear your workshop managers' reasoning for his opinion.

Originally Posted by Gerokent

I have always depressed the clutch when starting and stopping an engine (not just in my 2007 Puma, No dramas' so far), and being a diesel mechanic myself for 30 years, I have never heard of this damaging a clutch? I can't see why it would cause damage, if anything it will take some load off the starter as it's not trying to turn the transmission as well.
Would be interesting to hear your workshop managers' reasoning for his opinion.

x2 must be what he is smoking

I'm just relaying information and advice passed on to me 20 odd years ago and that has stood me well over the years. I am not a mechanic myself, but I will have a chat with him to try and explain his reasoning although I've heard the same thing quite a few times over the years.

I have driven Defenders for 19 years now and collectively must have gotten close to covering 3/4 of a million kilometers. Sticking to the advice given to me when I was young and new to Defenders by someone who at that time had 40 years experience working on Land Rovers, I've only lost one master cylinder over this period and not a single clutch, so maybe the advice I received does hold some truth.

These guys are losing clutches one after the other which might be some deep seated inerrant problem with the mechanics of the car, but the idea with the forum is to pass on advice and if one bloke has one less failure because of passed on advice it has served its purpose...

Cheers,

Lou

Originally Posted by Loubrey

That is possibly the worst thing you can do with a diesel engine's clutch...

I have always been told to never, never have the clutch depressed on starting and stopping. Place it in neutral and start or stop with your foot off the clutch.

Weird, that was the first thing I was told when I got my first Defender (Td5) - always start with the clutch pedal in even if in neutral.

The stopping with clutch pedal depressed in the Puma is to avoid the shudder from the engine going into the clutch plate.

Cranking with the clutch engaged puts a fair bit of extra load on the starter motor because it has to turn the whole gearbox as well as the engine!
Maybe not much of an issue in high ambient temps but at low temps it would make it hard work for the starter, when the battery will also be struggling.

Hi Naks,

Obviously a contentious topic, but as I've said before, I've never had to replace a clutch on any of the 5 Defenders I've owned before and I've done many hard K's building roads in Central Africa. My Tdci has relatively low km's at 60,000 but its just been back to the main dealer for a service and a health check and my transmission has absolutely no issues and everything is original as delivered.

I spoke with my workshop manager again after I got the previous comments and I have to say at this stage that I personally put a lot of stake in his opinions. He completed his apprenticeship in 1960 and he has maintained among others, many Land Rovers in his career.

He maintains that applying what he calls "Cold Pressure" to a clutch i.e pedal in or down during start up and shut down cycle is much worse than any force that can ever be transferred when the car is in neutral.

I'm not qualified enough to enter into debate on the matter, but I'll keep doing it my way and in the process not replace any clutches. You mentioned you're already looking at a new clutch early in 2015 it might be worth seeing if it lasts longer by doing it differently?

Cheers,

Lou