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The Defender is a 'van'... It is a work horse. It isn't designed for long distance comfort. It is designed for you to throw your tools in the back to get them onto a building site or remote location of your farm.Quote:
Originally Posted by c.h.i.e.f
If you want a work horse, that's more comfortable covering the distances, you buy a Disco commercial. Sure, the Disco Commercial doesn't have the looks of a Defender but it is the tool LR have for the job.
M
The commerical Disco....is it available in Oz, and if so how much $$$ should I spend on a "work truck"
If you havent ventured 500km inland from the coast of Oz, you are missing the point and potential of the LR def for what it could be....much like LR
the new concept vehicle may have all the wading depth in the world, it means bugger all if some hot dusty corrogated roads stop it dead in its track. Lets face it, LR quality control and exicution of wirring and electronics is not steller.
The body pannels must have no structural value. If air bags go off, the vehicle still needs to be able to be made mobile. Electronic traction control, abs and eletronic gearboxes are all good, but only when working 100%. Make a mechaincal base model, with a stand alone engine that isnt hooked up to and monitoring every wheel, bearing and gear in the car...
And as a consequence you have forever bequeathed the farm/commercial/mining sector to Toyota and the other Japanese manufacturers.Quote:
Originally Posted by camel_landy
Where does Toyota and Nissan sell most full size commercial 4x4's ?
A certain big wide brown dusty land where just going shopping can be a couple of hundred km trip, (it is for me, and I'm only 5 hours from Sydney) with another big wide brown dusty continent not far behind.
Land Rover complain about not selling vehicles, then abandon two huge entire markets to the opposition ?
Both markets they actually owned at one stage.
I just don't get it..........
Availability, dunno but don't forget that it's the residual values which are just as important as the initial purchase price. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by uninformed
I'm not missing the point & I have ventured 500km inland...Quote:
Originally Posted by uninformed
...and how can you tell how good a vehicle will be just by looking at a picture? Go on, I'd love to know?Quote:
Originally Posted by uninformed
I think you'll find that the cars are tested more than you're giving them credit for.
There's also nowt wrong with electrical systems in cars... It's just a different set of problems for which you just need a different set of skills to deal with them. And let's face it, ECUs, electronics, etc... are here to stay!
M
I know, that's the problem with the way the company was being run and who owned it in those days. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by rick130
I think it was probably a case of not wanting to spread themselves too thinly across too many markets as there were far deeper issues with the British motor industry in those days and they didn't have the resources to cope.
M
camel_landy, if you want some feedback for LR. I'm not sure if I would by anther.
back in 2010 when I paid 60K for my work truck, in the first 6 weeks of ownership LR had it working out an electrical issue. Not a great start for a work truck. Basic as it may be. But since then it has had a steady trickle if small issues.
I could work myself into accepting the price because it was the only twin cab on the market here in Aus that is a real 4x4. It would also double up as the family weekend and holiday fun. It does that very well.
However after drowning the previous car, a japanese twin cab. I now live in fear of any water crossing over 500mm with my Defer. This is my choice, but many adventures involve water deeper than 500mm. Many people would be much happier with a higher wading depth. I'd prefer no electrics, but if I have to have them at least water proof.
I have a steading growing fear of remote or expansive vehicle recovery be it with long distance travel or a stint in the local bush (greenlanding) due to large show stopping component reliability. At the moment getting a diff or gear box replaced under warranty is not a guarantee it wont fail again. Not a great warranty statement for LR. Not a great warm fuzzy feeling once out of warranty.
If LR view the Defender as a farm truck, a basic go any where work truck; then yes they have one. But they have done very poorly supplying farmers and the like with a simple reliable vehicle.
and the problem ran through a couple of successive owners more recently too.Quote:
Originally Posted by camel_landy
I'm well aware of some of the decisions that were being made fifteen years ago and had been made in the previous fifteen or so years as I was working with a really good (ex) Land Rover person who had escaped and then become an outside consultant, and I met a few of the excellent people still inside here.
They were so passionate about the product and so bloody frustrated in the directions things were taken.
It all came back to poor decisions and no resources.
As a foil to that, my mate has been working for a Japanese heavy vehicle manufacturer for the last near decade and was so impressed by the way the company was run.
There was a ten year vision of where the company and product needed to be, with the dips, peaks and dives of sales in shorter periods pretty much recognised and ignored for what they were, normal market ups and downs.
He said it made working for them a delight, everyone knew where they were going and it was all based on solid reasoning with all engineering based on solid, sound decisions and methods.
They have subsequently been bought by a large northern European owned truck manufacturer and the culture is so different he will probably bail.
No vision, just a reactionary culture where planning decisions can be turned 180* in the space of three months, purely down to a short, abnormal sales period.
It seems it's all based around looking good for the share market (and therefore institutional investors) in the short term, which seems to be the way our western, corporate world is structured these days. :(
Let's say that they've all had their pros & cons... :angel:Quote:
Originally Posted by rick130
Don't forget that Land Rover is a company and to exist, they have to make money! With the World economy the way it is at the moment, tough decisions need to be made and I'm sure that some of them need to be short term ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick130
M
No, I'm not after feedback. Anything I say here is me just being, well... Me! I don't mean that to be harsh but outside of my work, I'm just another enthusiast... If you see what I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by newhue
As for worrying about heading into the bush... Don't. Just learn a little about electronics and how it all works. OK, I've got a background in electronics & IT but what is going on under the hood is still very simple. If you get a problem, it is usually caused by the computer not being able to get the information it needs and that's where you need the combination of mechanical engineering & electronics to solve it.
Lets face it, when traveling, most people take a laptop these days for their photos, etc... All you need do is get a set of cables and ECU diags software and you're most of the way there. :)
M
Quality control is a problem also LR have good ideas as mentioned previously (disc brakes and coil sprung) but LR don't seem to continue with there "thinking" they sit there and dwell on the one good idea they had years ago....If I had the chance I would only use my landrovers for weekend adventures as Rick said a trip to town for some can be hundreds of K's or the good old "just down the road" (100k's) is not uncommon...