Thread: Defender Rear Axles

Hi Tough, Ashcrofts or whatever you choose they will still flog out at the drive flange if you don't change to oil lubed hubs.
It is a relatively simple fix and if done from new I am sure the factory axles would last a hell of a lot longer than they do.

I run Hi tough/maxidrive rears with their flanges all round and with the oil lubed hubs I don't expect to ever have problems in that area.

IMO the dreaded driveline clunk found in most defenders starts from there and gradually flogs out everything else including the A frame ball joint.

Cheers,
Paul.

Originally Posted by isuzutoo-eh

I bought Hi Tough axles for my Sals via Graeme Cooper Automotive a few weeks ago.
They reduced the slop in the drive train slightly though the original Sals axles are visually in near perfect condition.
Other options are Roving Tracks but my front HD axles from him aren't so good. I think Ashcroft do some as well.

I think I will dispute the fact that the shafts from Keith "aren't so good" I have given mine probably more of a hard time than most,and on 35's,and they have stood the test.Which is more than I can say about the Maxi axles that I had in the rear Salisbury.I think yours is just a problem of the axle fitting through the bush on an early 110 axle housing.Keith guarantees his axles against breakage up to 35" tyres.Unlike some of the other rubber axles made to be fitted with rubber tyres And I agree with harro,you do need to run the bearings in oil

and Wayne, whats not to say your Sals isnt a little out of true???How many KM's on the old MD shafts, how many on Keiths front shafts? same wheeling?



Is not the rear more likely to see higher loads than the front? Though the rear shafts are longer so should handle twist a little better....

When you say the Sals are the strongest (im guessing by dia) what front splines/dia are you running?

Are your fronts 4340 or 4340 300m (Im pretty sure keith offers both...)

BTW I think Keith makes good shafts, and he is a top, truely stand up guy.

Id love to know, of all the HD aftermarket brands, suffered failure due to poor set up or bent housings??????????

Has anyone actually broken a standard Defender rear axle? Not talking about stripping splines due to them fretting to the point where they fail, but a physical failure of a good condition axle.

Seems plenty have busted standard rover axles, but I haven't heard much about broken Salisbury ones...

Steve

Originally Posted by steveG

Has anyone actually broken a standard Defender rear axle? Not talking about stripping splines due to them fretting to the point where they fail, but a physical failure of a good condition axle.

Seems plenty have busted standard rover axles, but I haven't heard much about broken Salisbury ones...

Steve

I've heard of a few.

Not seen one with my own little peekers mind, but have talked to dealers that have had to replace them, including an ex-NSW NPWS TD5 130 I looked at buying once.

I cant actually name one, but I would bet my left nut many have been. Lets not look at the size of the big cast center section of the Sals, the 24 spline axles are not that much bigger than Rover types....

below is something I posted on Outerlimits4x4 many years ago:

From Maxi drive.

ROVER FRONT AXLE CHANGE POINTS & MAXI DRIVE DIFF APPLICATION

RANGE ROVER DISCOVERY AND DEFENDER WITH ABS:
All vehicles with ABS brakes have the CV joint with the small weak 32 inner axle spline. The CV joint also has 72 serations on its outside dia. for the electronic sensor to "read" wheel speed from. The heavy duty AEU2522 CV joint can be fitted with a 72 tooth ring which is shrunk onto the body of the CV. However this increases the dia. of the CV which then means the inside of the hard chrome swivel ball has to be machined to provide clearance. The top swivel pin also has to be raised 2mm. to clear the 72 tooth ring. ABS sensor is adjusted to just touch as per normal set-up.


SPLINE SIZES & TOOTH COUNTS

10 SPLINE: Used for axle shaft to diff side gear in ROVER Type diffs from the first L/R in 1948 to app 1992. Also used in L/R series 1 & 11 vehicles at drive flange and early R/R & Disco CV joints.
Square form (40 o included angle) Major dia 28.2 (1.11") Root dia 25.3 (.997") Zp ( polar section) .212
App torque capability for axle of 1500 Mpa UTS Hytuf 5635 Nm (4160 ft lbs)

24 SPLINE: Commonly referred to as "Salisbury" spline as it first came into rover use in the Salisbury diff fitted to series 111 long wheel base. Also used at drive flange on series 111 onwards. From app 1994 the Rover Type diff also uses this spline in the side gear although this gear is about .004" tighter than the Salisbury diff gear. The side gear spline in all Maxi-Drive 24 spline diffs is also the same as the Salisbury. (Why Rover decided to depart from industry standard and make the Rover diff tighter is anyone's guess)
Involute form, flat root side fit, 20/40 DP, 30 o PA,
Major dia 31.4 (1.24") Root dia 29.2 (1.15") Zp (polar section) .294
App torque capability for axle of 1500 Mpa UTS Hytuf 7835 Nm (5780 ft lbs)

23 SPLINE: Only used as the inner axle to CV connection on the three decent CV joints, namely R606665 R/R ; AEU1828 stage one 111 and AEU2522 early county
Involute form, flat root, side fit 20/40 DP, 30 o PA,
Major dia. 30.1 (1.18") Root dia 27.9 (1.10") Zp (polar section) .281
App torque capacity of axle of 1500 Mpa UTS Hytuf 7450 Nm (5500 ft lbs)

32 SPLINE: This is the hopelessly small inner axle to CV connection used on all vehicles since app 1988. Not strong enough for the torque that can be applied with a across axle diff lock. For this reason all front Maxi-Drive diff locks use the more durably 23 spline size and if required the stronger 23 spline CV joints are used in place of the weak 32 spline CV joint.

Vee form 45 o PA, Major dia. 26.3 (1.035") Root dia. 24.1 (.950")
Zp (polar section) .192
App. torque capacity of axle of 1500 Mpa UTS Hytuf 5095 Nm (3760 ft lbs)


this was copied from a page given to me by mal, there may be some small mistakes.

I posted this on the other thread

and the beauty of Hy-Tuf vs other high strength axle steels is its fatigue life, notch fatigue life and ductility

Of course, as with any steel it comes down to how it's handled/machined and the heat treatment.

and this chart makes it easy to see the differences.



Hy-Tuf has a lower yield strength but higher UTS than 4340, so my reading of that is that in theory (and hopefully practice) it'll start to twist earlier (and go further) than 4340 but break later, although prep and heat treatment play a huge part in this too.

4340M or 300M is better again, but at much higher $$.

FWIW lots of drag race axles in the US are made from Hy-Tuf but you can't really go wrong with either material or manufacturer which are a hell of a lot better than stock.

Originally Posted by LowRanger

I think I will dispute the fact that the shafts from Keith "aren't so good" I have given mine probably more of a hard time than most,and on 35's,and they have stood the test.Which is more than I can say about the Maxi axles that I had in the rear Salisbury.I think yours is just a problem of the axle fitting through the bush on an early 110 axle housing.Keith guarantees his axles against breakage up to 35" tyres.Unlike some of the other rubber axles made to be fitted with rubber tyres And I agree with harro,you do need to run the bearings in oil

EDIT: This is regarding front axles so a little bit off topic, I have no experience with this company's rear axles. /EDIT

I didn't say all Keiths axles 'aren't so good' I said 'the axles I have from Keith aren't so good'.

It isn't the bush the dodgy axles won't fit through, its the swivel ball they don't fit. Some bloody genius idea it is to sell axles that are too fat to fit through the swivel.
'Guaranteed not to break' by making them bigger till they don't break isn't rocket science it's primitive thought, I'd rather have them fit their intended purpose than indestructible.

So my axles are stuck in place, the CVs can't be removed, if something else breaks (guarantee it won't be the axle...duh) such as the diff again, I can't remove said axle to limp home, just have to let it flail around wrecking everything else. TerryO could confirm they can't be withdrawn through the swivel too, that was after they were installed by a diff specialist, so can't even blame my ham-fisted mechanicing that time.

Keith palmed me off saying the wear won't affect the strength of the axles and the swivels are easily machined out without reducing strength, all I need is a big press to remove the axles. I don't have a big press, access to a big press, desire to smash some genuine AEU2522 CVs that I can't afford to replace to get said axles out the shallow way as the place with a big press I talked to suggested... (they refused to do the job anyway)

No doubt they are a great product to the vast majority, maybe I just have that rare set of tolerances that become an interference fit. It doesn't make me a happy customer. I took it up with Keith, got fobbed off. Really, a millimetre less diameter would have been adequate clearance and according to Keith himself (after showing pictures of how mine have worn at the swivel interference), a millimetre less diameter wouldn't affect the axle's redundant unbreakability.

I'm not the only one that finds that they aren't a 100% product though:
Problem fitting Rovertracks Axles - Ideas?

I feel like I'm channeling Ron's luck with buying parts for my County.