Thread: 2000 Def 110 ABS/braking problem

Scary ride.

Sounds more like a traction issue rather than as brake problem. Wrong tyres / incorrect pressures for the terrain.

Brakes work in reverse but ABS dosent function in Reverse

Also he should have had the diff lock in from the beginning,
you don't put it in once you cant go any further. But you dont have to stop to put in in either, just put it in and out on the move.

Ummm if I can ask, why did he not have the CDL in before he started his climb and if it was not in why stop to put it in - you can activate on the fly.

Secondly are you sure the brakes failed. Slipping down a hill may be a consequence of many things - breaks being the least suspect. What tyres did he have at what pressure? How steap was the hill? Did the car steer at all as it slid (locked breaks = no steering)

do the breaks perform OK on the road now?

Its hard to say - not having been there to see it for my self and going by whats described here I would say the car is fine..... With respect - maybe a 4wd couse would help - none of us are too old or wise to learn more.

Glad your mate is OK, and hope the car is too. I know of another member on here that popped out of low range in a similar situation, and was stopped by a tree as he went backwards. Unfortunately it was a write-off as the impact was on the end of one of the chassis rails and twisted it.

As goingbush and Symo have already said it sounds more like a traction issue than brakes. One of the advantages of having the CDL engaged is that the back axle and front axle are locked together, so from a braking perspective its impossible to lock the brakes on one axle and have the the other axle still rotating.
Sounds like a dumb statement, but in practice what it means is that without the CDL engaged its easy to lock the front wheels on steep hills with low traction. The front has little weight, but most of the braking force (by design), so as you apply the brakes there initially isn't much braking on the rear, and the car trys to hold mainly on the front tyres. If there's not enough traction the fronts lock, you start to slide back.
Instinctively you apply more brakes to try and get the car to hold but you are already moving, so you end up just locking up the rears too.
Now sliding backwards with all wheels locked and no steering.
Locked wheels have less traction than unlocked.
At this stage, unless you are already in reverse and have the knowledge and training/experience to release the brakes and apply throttle instead then its all over until you hit something or reach the bottom of the hill.
Watch a non-CDL D2 try and reverse down a moderately steep/slippery slope and you'll see exactly what I mean.

Steve

As the other guys said DON'T climb hills without the diff lock engaged you are asking for trouble both mechanical and other.
As Don said ABS doesn't work in reverse so I would doubt if that is the issue but I do recall a couple of years ago a video on Youtube where what you are talking about happened.
Everyone put it down to the driver not knowing what he was doing but he was adamant that the car did it on its own.
I have a similar car and have never had a hint of it

Scary ride.

Sounds more like a traction issue rather than as brake problem. Wrong tyres / incorrect pressures for the terrain.

Brakes work in reverse but ABS dosent function in Reverse

Also he should have had the diff lock in from the beginning,
you don't put it in once you cant go any further. But you dont have to stop to put in in either, just put it in and out on the move.

Ummm if I can ask, why did he not have the CDL in before he started his climb and if it was not in why stop to put it in - you can activate on the fly.

Secondly are you sure the brakes failed. Slipping down a hill may be a consequence of many things - breaks being the least suspect. What tyres did he have at what pressure? How steap was the hill? Did the car steer at all as it slid (locked breaks = no steering)

do the breaks perform OK on the road now?

Its hard to say - not having been there to see it for my self and going by whats described here I would say the car is fine..... With respect - maybe a 4wd couse would help - none of us are too old or wise to learn more.

Sorry should have said, I wasn't actually there so am just saying what I know. I was meant to be there but had to cut my holiday short and fly back last week to Tassie for a job interview
I just rang him then to ask him in more detail what happened.. Apparently the brakes did actually stop the car and worked for a few seconds but then gave way, he pumped the brakes a few times but nothing happened and the steering was working.
Its not got anything to do with traction control does it? Do the early TD5's even have it? The TC light comes on with the ignition and then turns off like normal. I'm really not very familiar with TD5's!
Any and all ideas welcome

And I will certainly be recommending he takes a few 4wd courses before doing any more damage. Its just a pity I wasn't there as I have a lot more offroad driving experience then any of them do.
Also the fact the that the brakes are working fine now makes me think it was a driving fault, or an electrical problem??? And he didn't have the CDL engaged first because of inexperience

Originally Posted by steveG

Glad your mate is OK, and hope the car is too. I know of another member on here that popped out of low range in a similar situation, and was stopped by a tree as he went backwards. Unfortunately it was a write-off as the impact was on the end of one of the chassis rails and twisted it.

As goingbush and Symo have already said it sounds more like a traction issue than brakes. One of the advantages of having the CDL engaged is that the back axle and front axle are locked together, so from a braking perspective its impossible to lock the brakes on one axle and have the the other axle still rotating.
Sounds like a dumb statement, but in practice what it means is that without the CDL engaged its easy to lock the front wheels on steep hills with low traction. The front has little weight, but most of the braking force (by design), so as you apply the brakes there initially isn't much braking on the rear, and the car trys to hold mainly on the front tyres. If there's not enough traction the fronts lock, you start to slide back.
Instinctively you apply more brakes to try and get the car to hold but you are already moving, so you end up just locking up the rears too.
Now sliding backwards with all wheels locked and no steering.
Locked wheels have less traction than unlocked.
At this stage, unless you are already in reverse and have the knowledge and training/experience to release the brakes and apply throttle instead then its all over until you hit something or reach the bottom of the hill.
Watch a non-CDL D2 try and reverse down a moderately steep/slippery slope and you'll see exactly what I mean.

Steve

That makes total sense, thanks for that.
Just talking to my older brother and he reckons driver fault is the most likely cause.
Also when in a situation like that everything happens so fast you can very easily miss details, it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't notice how well the steering was working at the time!

Thanks for sharing Defendozer. Its all good and we all make mistakes and get into strife (shouldnt admit this but a am getting into a habbit of locking front and rear diff and forgetting the CDL too - my son often has to remind me - its an age thing I fear)

The main thing is your mate is ok and the car isnt it too bad shape either.

4WD courses not only help with your skill they are fun. Im not sure whats available in Tas but 4WD Vic run some great couses as do many of the 4WD clubs here. The club im in have some great couses and I have been lucky enough to do most of them... Sure you learn stuff but bugger that... I do them for the fun.....

Originally Posted by Symo

Thanks for sharing Defendozer. Its all good and we all make mistakes and get into strife (shouldnt admit this but a am getting into a habbit of locking front and rear diff and forgetting the CDL too - my son often has to remind me - its an age thing I fear)

The main thing is your mate is ok and the car isnt it too bad shape either.

4WD courses not only help with your skill they are fun. Im not sure whats available in Tas but 4WD Vic run some great couses as do many of the 4WD clubs here. The club im in have some great couses and I have been lucky enough to do most of them... Sure you learn stuff but bugger that... I do them for the fun.....

Haha its like my Dad, he almost always forgets that his Def has a fifth gear

I'll ring my mate again later today and get him to tell me EXACTLY what happened, he seems to think that it is a problem somewhere but being new to LR ownership I guess he is not really used to their little habits etc
Inexperience doesn't help either!

I have been meaning to join a 4wd club, just haven't got around to it yet.
Used to have my older brother to go 4wheeling with but he now lives in Melbourne

Thanks for the info, I will pass on what you've all said to my mate. He has definitely learnt a few lessens!