Thread: Traction control is NO substitute for a Locker. Ha!

Wheel placement seemed to be the difference in that section with the rut on the passenger side, seems to me the other guys knew the track. Also the others seemed to be twin locked (and with taller tyres than standard probably at suitable pressure too). Lockers are a great help but are not a replacement for proper wheel placement, if the diffs are on the ground well that's it, try another line.
Edit: rut on the driver's side.

Having seen the Defender traction control, it seems quite different to that in the Discovery 2. It seems to not cut in as quickly, where the D2 it does very well. I have seen a video of a D4 and it seemed even better. On trips with forum members with Pumas, they seem to spin quite a bit before it activates.

I wonder if there could be a way of 'chipping' the Defender's TC controller to cut in sooner, people can trick up engine and air suspension controllers without difficulty, so I can't see why not, cheaper than a LSD or locker and possibly not warranty infringing.

Jeff



edit: I just watched the video and as Wayne said, you are stuck on your diff. Bigger tyres would help.

Two weekends ago we climbed some very rocky steep,loose tracks.The patrol with us did complete the climb but did it difficultly,had two or three goes here and there.Without the LSD it would not have climbed the tracks.The Puma had KM2's at 20 psi and walked up almost everything,two goes in one bad section.

My D4 did it the easiest of all,it was just a walk in the park.Rock crawl,bit of wheel spin in one section,no second go.It is the electrickery that made it do it so easily.Tyres at road pressures as well,42 PSI.

The D4 is not far off lockers,but the Puma TC is nowhere near as good as the D4.I also recon,as said,the Puma TC does not seem to operate similar to the D2.Puma TC was also changed in the later models,i think the earlier models did not operate on all four wheels,just axle to axle,others may chime in with more.

Experience is also important.The more you try different things the more you will learn.
I have not done enough rough stuff in the D4,i would not call myself
experienced with it,yet.

I've driven that track with traction control a number of times. As for taking a good line, as long as you avoid getting hung up on your diffs and your tyre pressures are appropriate, TC should get you through just about any line on that track. However it takes time to learn how to get the best out of your TC and that requires exploring the way the TC responds to different throttle positions, engine revs and acceleration. Start experimenting on tackling a track like that by first idling up. Then do the track again several adding an extra 500 rpm each time up to about 2,500 rpm and see how your car responds. From there investigate the affect of various amounts of acceleration applied at different points on the track. Then move on to a different type of terrain such as rock steps and learn how the TC behaves there. The driving style is different to open diffs and different to lockers and no matter what you have, it takes some experimentation and experience in getting the most out of your car in different terrains.

Keep in mind that, at the end of the day TC is just a computer that is applying the brakes individually according to an algorithm using input from sensors in the wheels and engine data. The objective is to find out what triggers the algorithm. On the track, it can be frustrating because the vehicle will often stop before the traction control starts to grab, so you lose your momentum.

Also be aware that 2007 to 2010 pumas have a different TC to 2011 onwards pumas which is also probably different to the various iterations that the TD5s would have gone through and each of those different systems would respond a little differently to the same inputs. When I first got my 2011 110 I took it back to the dealer thinking that the TC was either not working or useless, but they were unable to find a fault. After more experience with it I can get a lot more out of the vehicle. It's not as good as lockers but a TC equipped vehicle is a lot more capable than one with open diffs.

Is anyone suggesting TC is a substitute for a locked diff?

Babs, did you have Center Diff Lock engaged ( move hi low lever to the left and a 4WD symbol appears on the dashboard) if you did then man those Mazdas are better than I'd have ever thought.

Obviously the Mazda bloke dosent know how to drive or pick a line, but really if that can get up then so should the "Worlds best 4x4xFar" even if Babs dosent 'know how to drive' like some of you are alluding.

Its not Bab's first 4x4 he used to have a HiLux so obviously has some 4WD cred

To be honest I think the Defender Traction Control is terribly overrated, Until I put Detroit Eaton true Trac in front & rear of my 110 I trully was not confident that it was a go -anywhere vehicle like y'all say they are.

I had the same 'qualms' with the TC in my puma (90) but i was trying to drive it like my old 4wd with lockers, ive found the key is crawl it, go slow, and if you dont succeed as many have said slowly increase revs, if you attack to fast the first time your less likely to try it slower, i live 15mins from the glasshouse and where the TC isn't as good as lockers in all situations its been more than enough to get up things 4wd's with lockers still struggle with, its all about getting used to the Defender, it doesn't matter what you used to drive and how it used to drive, its now about learning how the Defender drives.

also did you speak kind words too it and enforce how much you love it? seems to work with mine if he's struggling

I definitely agree that the Puma TC works best at low revs. The first time I got stuck I was revving it and TC light didn't come on at all. I then put it reverse low and it idled out with TC light illuminating. It's a LR thing. I think every vehicle is individual and have their own quirks. That what I love about mine.