Thread: Anti roll bars in defender 90

Originally Posted by Loubrey

A 90 without it's anti roll bars would be plain dangerous at anything approaching freeway speeds. One would hope it's an error in the catalogue...

I've only ever seen them removed on trialers that ride on trailers to evens.

Cheers,

Lou

No need to check you history.

Defender 90's did not have anti roll bars. Or swing away bars. What ever you want to call them. Until the TD5.

My 90 or 110 does not have them.

In fact when off roading, a lot take them off as they effect your axel travel and articulation.

Originally Posted by lackuwaxa

Attached is a scan of the back page of the 2013 Model Specifications for the Defender ..

You can't get the HD steelies on a 110 SW, but it seems pretty clear that you can on a 90 SW .. I haven't driven a Puma 90 with steelies before, but I have driven a older 300tdi one with .. I get that they are heavier, but i'm pretty sure the running gear is identical between the models ..

I'm just confused why they would require the removal of the sway bars, especially on a 90, on road they do get a bit of the old boat action happening, i would think that that would be exacerbated (made worse ) without the sways in ..

Wade

p.s. I noticed that the 90 gets the Heavy Duty Suspension as standard in the 2013 model, pretty sure that wasn't an option in the 2012, but i may be wrong

Originally Posted by lackuwaxa

Hi jimr1,

Sorry that's the steel with the Goodyear mtr's .. The mtr's on the alloys are also $470 .. So essentially it's a free swap alloy for steel ..

My question isn't a value question, it's more about if anyone knows why the steelies require the anti roll bars to be removed .. Off road no roll bars can be a good thing can give u more articulation, but not so great on road .. I have always run steel on my 4bys and just prefer it .. On a live axle I can't imagine the small weight increase would cause any noticeable difference ..

Wade

I think you provided the answer yourself. If the 90 gets heavy duty suspension as standard, then it won't have anti-roll bars (is stated on the options page you scanned and attached).

Heavier rate springs provide more roll resistance, so it would seem enough for Land Rover not to fit anti-roll bars.

People assume anti-roll bars are a major safety item when they aren't, all they do is limit body roll which is more a comfort factor.

An ARB won't limit or stop a car rolling over, that is governed by CofG height and gravity and usually involves tripping over something anyway.

Actually, an anti-roll bar limits grip, it's a lateral load transfer device that transfers load from the heavily loaded wheel (the outside tyre) across the axle to the inside tyre and diagonally across the chassis to the inside tyre at the opposite end.
An ARB reduces the roll angle but increases the slip angle.

The rough rule of thumb in chassis dynamics is that springs control grip and ARB's control balance, although in reality they work hand in glove.

On independent suspension they can be used to tie a car down to limit camber gain or change and so can help grip when a wheel would normally have to much camber gain, upsetting the contact patch, I've done this on some cars, McPherson struts and swing axles (eg Ford F100) can benefit from this.
Live axles don't.

Where an anti-roll bar can have a good benefit is in transitions such as quick left to right turns, the chassis can respond more quickly to the steering input rather than lurch.

Originally Posted by Reads90

No need to check you history.

Defender 90's did not have anti roll bars. Or swing away bars. What ever you want to call them. Until the TD5.

My 90 or 110 does not have them.

In fact when off roading, a lot take them off as they effect your axel travel and articulation.

Reads,

Not wanting to argumentative, but I've just checked photographs of my previous 90's which were in order:

'96 Africa spec - fitted with anti roll bar
'94 UK Spec - not fitted with anti roll bar (OEM coils, not sure if HD)
'96 UK Spec - fitted with anti roll bar
'98 UK Spec - fitted with anti roll bar

All 300 Tdi's and I'm just referring to the rear one piece item between the axle and chassis mounts. Photographs attached of the Africa spec '96 (poor resolution, but definitely has it fitted) and the UK spec '98 (day after I bought it, still looking rough!) where you can clearly see it fitted.

Rick's explanation makes sense with the HD Coils, but I drove my '98 (on standard OEM coils) only once without the bar attached and the body roll was uncomfortable IMO.

I think we high jacked the thread in any case, so I'll concede that 90's obviously don't need them when other settings are adjusted to suit.

Cheers,

Lou

This article on steel vs alloy rims, while far from perfect, is worth a read: Age Old Rivalry | Australian 4WD Action.

As for heavy duty suspension, my MY11 D90, purchased in 2010 came with it as standard. It also has anti-roll bars, so HD suspension and ARB are not mutually exclusive (on a D90 at least).

Cheers
KarlB

Originally Posted by Bush65

I think you provided the answer yourself. If the 90 gets heavy duty suspension as standard, then it won't have anti-roll bars (is stated on the options page you scanned and attached).

Heavier rate springs provide more roll resistance, so it would seem enough for Land Rover not to fit anti-roll bars.

No, if you have the alloys the ARB's stay, if you put the steelies on you lose the ARB's .. and apparently that is the same for the MY2013 130 aswell, though with that, it is even more arbitary as you get the ARB's with the HD steel and continentals, but the HD steel and MTR's you dont .. the only thing that I can think is that maybe the HD steel/MTR combination results in a tyre too wide to work with the ARB and maybe it rubs?? but the MTR's on the alloys you still get the ARB's?? This is very confusing ..

Wade

Wade,

If you look at the photo of the Alveston Red 90, you'll see how far inboard the ARB actually sits. You would have to come in nearly 200mm to 250mm to get close to them.

I agree that this is very confusing!

IMO I reckon to go with the OME alloys and the standard 50/50 Grabbers and get a set of Mach 5's (first choice) steels with muddies for play and offroad touring or if like me you can't afford them, get some ZU alloys for the same options!

This is my current Puma 90 with my "Option" wheel and tyres. The ZU alloys (6 no)were purchased from the UK and delivered Karratha in the Pilbara for a lot less that the "over the counter" price in Perth...

Cheers,

Lou

I think you are right mate ..

just spoke with the service manager at my local, he is gonna clarify with LRA .. it may be a typo, coz it also says on the back that the ARB's are standard except with HD suspension .. but HD suspension is now standard ??? ..

I will post the answer from LRA when it comes ..

Wade