TD5 Engine problem,

**harro** · 22nd May 2013, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by 3pointa

I would put my money on the mass air censor. no power, would blow black smoke, wait 15min for it to cool down and drive another 15 or 20 kms then the same thing, then again and called a tow. This ezy to fit part had to be sent from sydney to darwin and cost about $230 plus the 5 days for the mechanic to work it out because it had to be hot to fault, plus accommodation for 5 days, and did I mention the 350 km flatbed ride.
Got back to work a day late also.
Has since heard that you may be able to clean them, would need to be a spray. Give it a clean and see what happens.

3pointa

Hi 3pointa,
If it is the MAF you are referring to it has a default setting in the ECU and can can be unplugged at any time and the engine will actually run quite well.
overfuels slightly down low and underfuels slightly up top but certainly no show stopper.
This goes for all the sensors on the td5 bar the crank angle sensor which IS a show stopper with no default to support it.

Does sound like the fuel pump although I have seen the same symptoms from a failed ECU although this usually generates a 'top side switch' fault as well as numerous others.

Dexcel I am assuming you are aware of the age old problem with oil migrating through the injector harness.
Oil does not have to get all the way to the ECU to cause rough running and can be caused by oil getting into the connections at the injector end causing intermittent insulation of the ECU signals to open.

If the injector harness has never been changed it may be worth doing anyway. Their seals all seem to eventually fail.

Then there is the fuel pump relay which might be worth a look at too.
It is under the drivers seat.

Cheers,
Paul.

**djam1** · 22nd May 2013, 07:14 AM

I had a similar problem it turned out to be the fuel pump relay under the Defenders driver seat.
Crook connection it would work occasionally and other times the fuel pump wouldn't run causing the issue

**Leyland1980** · 22nd May 2013, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by harro

Hi 3pointa,
Dexcel I am assuming you are aware of the age old problem with oil migrating through the injector harness.
Oil does not have to get all the way to the ECU to cause rough running and can be caused by oil getting into the connections at the injector end causing intermittent insulation of the ECU signals to open.

As the friend in question I can state that there is no oil in the ECU plug.

If the MAF was at fault would this show up on the Nanocom?

Is there any way to test the fuel pump (the vehicle has a pump access panel so no need to drop the tank) and its relay?

If it were injector seals the oild level would be rising wouldn't it and the oild would have diesel in it - any easy tests for this?

Cheers

John

**justinc** · 22nd May 2013, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Leyland1980

As the friend in question I can state that there is no oil in the ECU plug.

If the MAF was at fault would this show up on the Nanocom?

Is there any way to test the fuel pump (the vehicle has a pump access panel so no need to drop the tank) and its relay?

If it were injector seals the oild level would be rising wouldn't it and the oild would have diesel in it - any easy tests for this?

Cheers

John

Hi John, I was talking about the lower sealing copper washers, these are the ones that allow compression gasses into the fuel gallery when leaking, the Orings are what allow diesel into the crankcase when they leak.

JC

**dexcel** · 22nd May 2013, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by justinc

Hi John, I was talking about the lower sealing copper washers, these are the ones that allow compression gasses into the fuel gallery when leaking, the Orings are what allow diesel into the crankcase when they leak.

JC

Hi JC

Been spending the evening looking around this forum and others and a reaccruing assessment for similar problems has been what you suggested about the copper washers and/or a fuel pump/fuel pressure.

To eliminate the fuel pump as a problem. How would i go about directly testing the fuel pump and diagnose if it is working properly or not. As Leyland1980 mentioned, i have relatively easy access to the pump.

Thanks

**Leyland1980** · 22nd May 2013, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by justinc

the lower sealing copper washers, these are the ones that allow compression gasses into the fuel gallery when leaking, the Orings are what allow diesel into the crankcase when they leak.
JC

Surely if the copper washers have failed enough for compression to be lost the o rings would be taking a hammering and fail pretty soon after?

**harro** · 23rd May 2013, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by Leyland1980

As the friend in question I can state that there is no oil in the ECU plug.

If the MAF was at fault would this show up on the Nanocom?

Is there any way to test the fuel pump (the vehicle has a pump access panel so no need to drop the tank) and its relay?

If it were injector seals the oild level would be rising wouldn't it and the oild would have diesel in it - any easy tests for this?

Cheers

John

Hi John, to test the MAF just unplug it. If engine runs better on the default setting it either needs a clean or replacement.
At idle Maf should be reading at least 50 Kg/h on the Nanocom IIRC.
If reading significantly lower it has a problem.

As for the fuel pump relay, see if it is loose or change it out for a known good one.

I remember reading somewhere about loosening the fuel filter to test pump flow, messy

and I personally have never had to try it, maybe someone else can comment?

Cheers,
Paul.

**justinc** · 23rd May 2013, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Leyland1980

Surely if the copper washers have failed enough for compression to be lost the o rings would be taking a hammering and fail pretty soon after?

They don't fail badly enough for that, the fuel gallery pressure is around 80psi IIRC, the leak from compression gasses will be miniscule at this stage if I am correct with my 'diagnosis', as a steady but very small stream of bubbles will be entering the fuel gallery under load/ higher boost conditions. At low load and low boost IE less cylinder pressures there would be almost no leak into the fuel gallery. When you see a failed washer they have a very small area of gas tracking. The worst one I ever saw looked nothing more than a thin line across the face of the washer, that vehicle wouldn't climb a hill at all and required extensive bleeding on the side of the road to get going again, until the next hill...

JC

**justinc** · 23rd May 2013, 07:23 AM

Unplug the fuel inlet pipe at the fuel pressure regulator at the back of the engine drivers side and get someone to cycle the key, BEWARE IT IS A FAIR BIT MESSY and NOT to be tried on a hot engine.

If you have access to a pressure gauge it would be better, however the pressure is quite high around 80 + psi so make sure the connections are OK.

JC

**Leyland1980** · 23rd May 2013, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by justinc

BEWARE IT IS A FAIR BIT MESSY
JC

I suspect it won't be messy at all, as I am 99% sure that the pump is dead as a door nail!

Thread: TD5 Engine problem,

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