New Model Defender - more non info

Olli,

The problem with that blog is that it is almost entirely about appearance. Certainly appearance is a significant factor, but by no means the most important feature. Some of the more important factors that I see in a new Defender design (no particular order):-

Flat glass throughout - makes replacements cheaper at least in part because storage and shipping of glass is a lot cheaper.

All glass must be near vertical and kept as small as is practical to reduce heat buildup when parked in the sun. Almost all current cars are designed by people who live in a cold climate and think the more sun the better. If Jeep can do this, so can Landrover.

Lights should be generic type - means you can get them anywhere. In the same way, tyre size should be one widely used, at least as an option.

Floor and door sills same level for ease of hosing out.

Multiple body types and wheelbases with the most important being trayback and dual cab trayback to compete with rival utility types.

As with the current Defender, payload and towing capacity greater than competitors.

Long travel suspension with plenty of clearance round wheels for mud, sticks etc.

Price must be comparable to competitors in the utility market - e.g. Hilux

Approach, departure and breakover angles must be no worse than current models.

Wading depth not less than current models.

And, of course, it must be durable and maintainable, even in the bush.

Must be designed so as not to be crippled by impact with a 70kg animal at 110km/hr. (Failing this, factory roo bar should be available)

Some features which are not available on the current Defender are so obvious that they should not need mentioning - for example, effective dustproofing, ergonomics to fit large, well fed twenty-first century Australians or Americans, not depression and war ravaged 1940s Englishmen, airconditioning that works well.

The basic Defender design was established in the late 1940s in circumstances very different from those that apply today. Unfortunately, the design of cars today is very much more constrained by regulation than was the case then, and an innovative design such as appeared then is almost impossible. Because of the regulations that have to be met, the basic design of a car costs so much that it must be produced in very large numbers to break even. (In 1948 Rover had to use available engines, gearbox, diffs etc, but these did not constrain the basic design nearly as much - although for example, the Rover engines made the chassis width (same today) greater than the Jeep that the other dimensions were copied from.)This means that a new Defender must share a platform and basic design with a mass market car, or be designed so that it will be a mass market car itself. Neither is likely to produce a vehicle that will really live up to the heritage of the original, but Landrover has no other option.

John

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...013/12/752.jpg

The biggest problem I see with this is that if they follow this path we're going to end up with something like the FJ Cruiser. A plastic "retro" styled car with limited options that does no justice to the original but encourages more posers to think they are cool. The defender is what it is, a piece of motoring history that was and is great. But doesn't deserve to be bastardised to fit into today's safety regulated market. Let it grow old disgracefully and not become another piece of plastic crap that has lost its character. Drive what we have now and enjoy it.

Well said Trundle, I couldn't agree more! I really liked the original FJ's, though not as much as the Defender. But I wouldn't drive the new plastic version if it was given to me free and I was being paid to drive it. I think I'll hold on to my Defender to the very end...

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Originally Posted by Orkney 90

Well said Trundle, I couldn't agree more! I really liked the original FJ's, though not as much as the Defender. But I wouldn't drive the new plastic version if it was given to me free and I was being paid to drive it. I think I'll hold on to my Defender to the very end...

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X2!!!

No vehicle with live front axles can make it past the qualifications for the relevant NCAP rating for partial frontal impact and crumple zones. The full 5 star rating doesn't even relate to the vehicle itself, but what it does to pedestrians and other cars…The fact remains that in 2015 the live axle will forever leave Land Rover manufacture with only a remote possibility for high load rear axles, but even that most unlikely.

I think we all have to be realistic and accept that there is no chance what so ever for the new "Defender" to do anything other take the spirit and culture of the Defender forward in a new world package. Hopefully it is a well though out "new" vehicle and not some pathetic attempt to stay "retro"…

Having said that, we might even end up pleasantly sup prised, but I'm ver aware that the 2% that wants to kill the designers are almost all on this forum!!!:D:D:D

Cheers,

Lou

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

When We walked into the Dealership where we eventually bought our "90", there wasn't one to be seen....several Range Rovers, Jaguars etc...we were almost embarrassed to ask about a Defender.
However, when we mentioned "Defender" the sales lady's face lit up....she was most enthusiastic...."We love our Defenders" she said...going on to tell us about some she had sold.
Cheers, Pickles.

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I got the complete opposite when I tried to by a 90 a couple of years ago. The dealer I went to wasn't interested and told me there were none in the Country. I found out after that there were a couple in NSW - they didn't even bother to check before fobbing me off. I can only imagine they were only interested in selling the top end stuff. Very disappointed, and they won't increase their sales of them either with an attitude like that.

Just put up some more ass-end variations : New Land Rover Defender

Looking forward to your comments.

Best,

Olli

lots of good points JD , just going to add some comments.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Flat glass throughout - makes replacements cheaper at least in part because storage and shipping of glass is a lot cheaper.

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you would think so but a new tinted screen for my 2006 Landcruiser cost less than a new non tinted front screen for my MY 05 Defender

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Lights should be generic type - means you can get them anywhere. In the same way, tyre size should be one widely used, at least as an option.

Floor and door sills same level for ease of hosing out.

Multiple body types and wheelbases with the most important being trayback and dual cab trayback to compete with rival utility types.

As with the current Defender, payload and towing capacity greater than competitors.

Long travel suspension with plenty of clearance round wheels for mud, sticks etc.

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agreed, round wheels are always a good thing :)

Price must be comparable to competitors in the utility market - e.g. Hilux

Approach, departure and breakover angles must be no worse than current models.

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Wading depth not less than current models.

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current model = 500mm is pretty **** poor

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And, of course, it must be durable and maintainable, even in the bush.

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well that rules out it being English made, hopefully the Indians will fare better

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Must be designed so as not to be crippled by impact with a 70kg animal at 110km/hr. (Failing this, factory roo bar should be available)

Some features which are not available on the current Defender are so obvious that they should not need mentioning - for example, effective dustproofing, ergonomics to fit large, well fed twenty-first century Australians or Americans, not depression and war ravaged 1940s Englishmen, airconditioning that works well.


The basic Defender design was established in the late 1940s in circumstances very different from those that apply today. Unfortunately, the design of cars today is very much more constrained by regulation than was the case then, and an innovative design such as appeared then is almost impossible. Because of the regulations that have to be met, the basic design of a car costs so much that it must be produced in very large numbers to break even. (In 1948 Rover had to use available engines, gearbox, diffs etc, but these did not constrain the basic design nearly as much - although for example, the Rover engines made the chassis width (same today) greater than the Jeep that the other dimensions were copied from.)This means that a new Defender must share a platform and basic design with a mass market car, or be designed so that it will be a mass market car itself. Neither is likely to produce a vehicle that will really live up to the heritage of the original, but Landrover has no other option.

John

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Interestingly, seems the Italians are listening, reading thru your list my new truck hits the mark with all your criteria, except that the windscreen is slightly curved and leaning back at about 40deg, all other glass is flat and vertical.

This has been a good post , For me I would like a bit more power , a bit more side room , to be quieter , and have better water and dust seals . It would be nice to see it well made ( build quality ) with room for after market bits .ie, CBs , electric break controllers turbo timers , all the little ad ons that personalize our trucks . We don't have any say in the design rules Land Rover will have to comply with , I think that they will carry over some of the genes and give us a good new Defender , only time will tell ..:)

Electric break controller! Now that would sell well.

Sorry, I knew you meant brake controller, but couldn't resist.