Thread: New Model Defender - more non info

I'm not convinced the 3.2 is better than the 2.4/2.2,it takes off quicker but the Ranger is lighter.A long stroke 3.0ltre is the go for a Defender. Pat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicks89 View Post
.... slant the windscreen back some more ....
No, this is one of the vehicles major advantages over the opposition, living as we do in a sunny climate.

But I agree with just about everything else, except, perhaps the bigger engine, which is almost certainly an impossibility down the track, although perhaps possible today.

John

JDNSW Yeah trust me I agree with the current windscreen position, I meant that LR are obviously going to try streamline this thing so rather than rebuild the whole lot just tilt it a bit more and away we go.

The thing that gets to me about LR and defender at the moment is that each year the engine capacity has decreased. I understand performance has increased, but you cant tell me that we're getting something for nothing. Something has got to give, surely if you're pulling more out of less that you are effecting longevity?
I dont want an abhorrent toyota style V8 4.5. But surely theres something to be said for keeping some size, especially when the D4 and RR Sports are still rocking 2.7 etc?

Can someone please enlighten me? Is LR forced to comply with some sort of environmental restriction in Europe that is tightening every year? Because how on earth can Toyota release a 4.5L v8 solid axle rig when LR just keeps getting smaller?

Originally Posted by PAT303

I'm not convinced the 3.2 is better than the 2.4/2.2,it takes off quicker but the Ranger is lighter.A long stroke 3.0ltre is the go for a Defender. Pat

Got to agree with you there Pat. I drive a 3.2 Ranger at work everyday and the engine is harsh and noisy and has a flat spot as wide as the main street of Trundle. Goes well on the highway, but around town it feels slow, heavy and reluctant to rev.
In comparison the 2.2 in the Defender feels almost sprightly! Never thought I'd use the words 'Defender' and 'sprightly' in the same sentence.

Tom

Despite historically selling worldwide, the Defender's primary market is, and always has been Europe - and yes, there are and have been restrictions on engine size in a number of their markets.

In theory, and increasingly in practice, engine capacity is disconnected from power and torque once you have some form of supercharging. With all engines likely to be considered being turbocharged, and increasingly stringent environmental restrictions in a lot of markets, there are very good reasons why a utility vehicle such as the Defender has a small (but relatively powerful) engine, and a new design is likely to move further in this direction, whether we like it or not. Which is not to say performance will decrease - increased use of aluminium will mean lighter vehicles and hence less need for more power.

John

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Despite historically selling worldwide, the Defender's primary market is, and always has been Europe - and yes, there are and have been restrictions on engine size in a number of their markets.

In theory, and increasingly in practice, engine capacity is disconnected from power and torque once you have some form of supercharging. With all engines likely to be considered being turbocharged, and increasingly stringent environmental restrictions in a lot of markets, there are very good reasons why a utility vehicle such as the Defender has a small (but relatively powerful) engine, and a new design is likely to move further in this direction, whether we like it or not. Which is not to say performance will decrease - increased use of aluminium will mean lighter vehicles and hence less need for more power.

John

Thanks,

I knew there had to be a reason for it! Thanks for giving me the scoop.

Originally Posted by Wicks89

Can someone please enlighten me? Is LR forced to comply with some sort of environmental restriction in Europe that is tightening every year? Because how on earth can Toyota release a 4.5L v8 solid axle rig when LR just keeps getting smaller?

John touched on it, so I'll just add 2c. In the EU the emissions are assessed across the portfolio of vehicles of a manufacturer to meet a combined target. For every V8 you need the comparable small capacity engine (not necessarily 1 to 1 because its based on CO2 and CO emissions from that engine). LR have bit of a dilemma, their volume sales are the Range Rovers which typically have larger capacity engines with higher CO2 and emission values. The defender is small volume in sales and gets lumped with the Evoques and Freelanders to compensate the higher volume sales of the Range Rover. It also fits with the traditional engine size of the LR defender as a follow on from the Series series. Save for the V8 country, the vast majority of LR's since the Series series to the defender range has been small capacity suitable to trundle along in the paddock and into town. The defender was not designed with the wide open expanse of Oz and Africa in mind.

Turning to Toyota, broad portfolio of vehicles and high volume sales of small engine vehicles (read low emissions) thus they get to smile about a thirsty, inefficient V8 diesel donk because the Cruiser is a blip on their emissions across the portfolio. Also Toyota don't have the same foothold in the EU so are not necessarily affected by the tighter emission regs. Put another way, Toyota probably don't or need to sell the Cruiser V8 in the EU. If they do, their combined target compensates for the V8.

We in Oz are a generation behind the EU on emissions regs. Manufacturers in the EU are designing for EURO6 emission targets. Manufacturers wanting to sell into the EU are designing for EURO6 emission targets. I am probably mistaken but i thought we (in Oz) were still working towards Euro5 targets. None the less trickle down effect will be small capacity forced induction engines.

If you don't like the future, move to Canada. Lovely country (no Americans) and you get to drive an F150 with a 6.8ltr diesel as your kids commuter vehicle. Canada being economically tied to the USA will follow the boosum of the USA.

MLD

Originally Posted by Loubrey

Not sure of the exact date, but Australia is very soon (in the next couple of years) going to ban the sale of new cars without electronic stability control (various names for it) as well as cars without a minimum amount of airbags.

Buy them now and treasure them!

Live axles don't work well with crumple zones and it is safe to assume that our Defenders are the very last Land Rovers ever with live axles (in the front at least). I imagine the very best we can hope for is a slightly "industrialized" or "toughened up" Discovery 4 type vehicle.

Cheers,

Lou

My MY15 Defender has DSC, so that's done
And it's having a sleep for a few months for next trip

Doesn't matter which "bigger/better" engine we're talking about, a "better" engine would definitely, IMHO, have been the go, something along the lines of a 3L Turbo diesel, say 140/150KW, & 500/550Nm would have been great.
Sadly now, that is never going to happen, with the current Defender.
Pickles.