All discussions relating to the Defenders end of production

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

Y.....:p When it comes to comprehending Land Rovers attitude and approach in abandoning its roots ............... :eek::p

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A cheap and vulgar money grab I'd suggest!! They're just looking at the potential dollars from soccer mums and the like but then again, if they don't maybe they won't survive. But they sell every Defender they build don't they?! So that puzzles me a bit. Do you think there's a bit of snobbery occurring? only wanting to go RR & Disco for the well heeled set?
Some one will fill the gap (if they create one) and from what I've heard here it sounds like Jeep is eyeing the market.

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Originally Posted by Didge

A cheap and vulgar money grab I'd suggest!! They're just looking at the potential dollars from soccer mums and the like but then again, if they don't maybe they won't survive. But they sell every Defender they build don't they?! So that puzzles me a bit. Do you think there's a bit of snobbery occurring? only wanting to go RR & Disco for the well heeled set?
Some one will fill the gap (if they create one) and from what I've heard here it sounds like Jeep is eyeing the market.

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Totally Didge. And if Jeep arent eyeing the HD work vehicle market they'd be crazy...its so wide open. But a fancy Wrangler won't cut it. Too beach boy.

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

Yeah Didge, normally I would agree, but I've tried that. :p When it comes to comprehending Land Rovers attitude and approach in abandoning its roots and the heavy duty 4WD market with the demise of Defender, adopting the SUV mentality that a veneer of adventure is all that is required and treats their loyal Defender customers with such contempt, only a full frontal lobotomy will do I'm afraid. And joining the ranks of scribes who are feverishly attempting to make all that fit their word limits, editors limits and limited experience with Land Rovers, doubly so! ...can you have a double frontal lobotomy CBT? Or is that why we need to put our heads together so to speak? Just in order to cope! :eek::p

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I wouldn't recommend a lobotomy, it apparently mainly made people more stupid. Drugs are better for that.


The purpose of the operation was to reduce the symptoms of mental disorder, and it was recognized that this was accomplished at the expense of a person's personality and intellect. British psychiatrist Maurice Partridge, who conducted a follow-up study of 300 patients, said that the treatment achieved its effects by "reducing the complexity of psychic life". Following the operation, spontaneity, responsiveness, self-awareness and self-control were reduced. Activity was replaced by inertia, and people were left emotionally blunted and restricted in their intellectual range.[6]
The consequences of the operation have been described as "mixed".[7] Some patients died as a result of the operation and others later committed suicide. Some were left severely brain-damaged. Others were able to leave the hospital, or became more manageable within the hospital.[7] A few people managed to return to responsible work, while at the other extreme people were left with severe and disabling impairments.[8] Most people fell into an intermediate group, left with some improvement of their symptoms but also with emotional and intellectual deficits to which they made a better or worse adjustment.[8] On average, there was a mortality rate of approximately 5 percent during the 1940s.[8]
The lobotomy procedure could have severe negative effects on a patient's personality and ability to function independently.[9] Lobotomy patients often show a marked reduction in initiative and inhibition.[10] They may also exhibit difficulty putting themselves in the position of others because of decreased cognition and detachment from society.[11]
Immediately following surgery, patients were often stuporous, confused, and incontinent. Some developed an enormous appetite and gained considerable weight. Seizures were another common complication of surgery. Emphasis was put on the training of patients in the weeks and months following surgery.[12]
Freeman coined the term "surgically induced childhood" and used it constantly to refer the results of lobotomy. The operation left people with an "infantile personality"; a period of maturation would then, according to Freeman, lead to recovery. In an unpublished memoir he described how the "personality of the patient was changed in some way in the hope of rendering him more amenable to the social pressures under which he is supposed to exist." He described one 29-year-old woman as being, following lobotomy, a "smiling, lazy and satisfactory patient with the personality of an oyster" who couldn't remember Freeman's name and endlessly poured coffee from an empty pot. When her parents had difficulty dealing with her behaviour, Freeman advised a system of rewards (ice-cream) and punishment (smacks).[13]
Russian psychiatrist Fedor Kondratev, of the Serbsky Center, said that thousands of the people with schizophrenia to whom the method was applied had completely lost the remnants of their mental health; their fate had been irrevocably broken.[14]

There you go MrLandy. :eek: It looks like it's the more traditional Bottle In Front Of Me for us. I cant afford to become any more stupid. :p

The June edition of Land Rover Owner International magazine suggests that the planned replacement of the Defender has been pushed to 2020 at the earliest as the boffins at LR were not happy with the direction the designers were taking.

If this is the case, then I have a great fear that the Defender will be no more. I suspected as much as there have been absolutely no shots of any test vehicles/concept vehicles anywhere which was very sus given its release was meant to be 2017-2018.

I suspect LR will be now know exclusively as a prestige marque supplying expensive 4x4's to well healed punters, most of whom will not be interested in getting the tyres dirty. I hope I am proved wrong but given LR has mucked around for 30 years too long on this, sadly I don't see Defender as being part of the LR picture any longer. LR has become just another manufacturer who makes pretty cars!

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Originally Posted by 4wheeler

The June edition of Land Rover Owner International magazine suggests that the planned replacement of the Defender has been pushed to 2020 at the earliest as the boffins at LR were not happy with the direction the designers were taking.

If this is the case, then I have a great fear that the Defender will be no more. I suspected as much as there have been absolutely no shots of any test vehicles/concept vehicles anywhere which was very sus given its release was meant to be 2017-2018.

I suspect LR will be now know exclusively as a prestige marque supplying expensive 4x4's to well healed punters, most of whom will not be interested in getting the tyres dirty. I hope I am proved wrong but given LR has mucked around for 30 years too long on this, sadly I don't see Defender as being part of the LR picture any longer. LR has become just another manufacturer who makes pretty cars!

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Indeed.

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Originally Posted by 4wheeler

The June edition of Land Rover Owner International magazine suggests that the planned replacement of the Defender has been pushed to 2020 at the earliest as the boffins at LR were not happy with the direction the designers were taking.

If this is the case, then I have a great fear that the Defender will be no more. I suspected as much as there have been absolutely no shots of any test vehicles/concept vehicles anywhere which was very sus given its release was meant to be 2017-2018.

I suspect LR will be now know exclusively as a prestige marque supplying expensive 4x4's to well healed punters, most of whom will not be interested in getting the tyres dirty. I hope I am proved wrong but given LR has mucked around for 30 years too long on this, sadly I don't see Defender as being part of the LR picture any longer. LR has become just another manufacturer who makes pretty cars!

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I don't agree with your comment about pretty cars,...what JLR is doing, is manufacturing cars that sell,...they are actually holding up the Jaguar side at the moment....Don't think you could call an SVR Range Rover with 575hp a "pretty" car, ...I'd call it a weapon.
As far as Defender goes, as usual,.....who knows, but your info re 2020 certainly is interesting, but no-one really knows what's happening do they?
I for one & maybe a few on here might feel that whilst we love it, maybe the Defender as we know it, is a bit of a dinasaur, so maybe, if there is a "new" replacement, then maybe, it should have a "new" name.
But, it's all "myth & hearsay" at the moment anyway.
Pickles.

The SVR range rover is a jacked up sports car. It's not so much progress for Land Rover, more of a sell out, completely removed from what Land Rover set out to do when conceived.

If your saying the replacement will be so different they shouldn't even call it a Defender , well then maybe they should drop the Land Rover brand completely, before it starts to look completely hollow.

How about they go back to 'Rover'? You could have the new Range Rover Elitist from Rover with its advanced poor people avoidance system. And the Disco Trolly from rover with intelligent shopping assistance.

Up until the last Defender rolled off the line you could at least say that they were diversifying the range whilst honouring the brand's roots. If they do not replace the Defender with a model that is a no nonsense 4x4 work horse, they will be separating themselves from their spine.... IMO!

I don't even think their 'Defender' needs to sell in great numbers, LAND ROVER needs an Offroad/work biased vehicle to hold the brand together whilst they continue to make a killing on the lux market. Unless of course, they have already reinvented themselves as a luxury car brand, in which case it's been a good run, RIP.

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Originally Posted by manic

The SVR range rover is a jacked up sports car. It's not so much progress for Land Rover, more of a sell out, completely removed from what Land Rover set out to do when conceived.

If your saying the replacement will be so different they shouldn't even call it a Defender , well then maybe they should drop the Land Rover brand completely, before it starts to look completely hollow.

How about they go back to 'Rover'? You could have the new Range Rover Elitist from Rover with its advanced poor people avoidance system. And the Disco Trolly from rover with intelligent shopping assistance.

Up until the last Defender rolled off the line you could at least say that they were diversifying the range whilst honouring the brand's roots. If they do not replace the Defender with a model that is a no nonsense 4x4 work horse, they will be separating themselves from their spine.... IMO!

I don't even think their 'Defender' needs to sell in great numbers, LAND ROVER needs an Offroad/work biased vehicle to hold the brand together whilst they continue to make a killing on the lux market. Unless of course, they have already reinvented themselves as a luxury car brand, in which case it's been a good run, RIP.

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Yep,that is what they have done.Every Disco model has moved further and further up market.:(

As i have said before,they don't have a basic family vehicle anymore,which is what the Disco,and to an extent the Deefer wagon variants were.

They are missing that area of the market completely.

But i don't think they care,upmarket is probably where the money is,or where they think it is.For some reason,they seem to want to fill the vehicles up with the most electronic crap they possible can.

I doubt they really care where it all started either.

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

I don't agree with your comment about pretty cars,...what JLR is doing, is manufacturing cars that sell,...they are actually holding up the Jaguar side at the moment....Don't think you could call an SVR Range Rover with 575hp a "pretty" car, ...I'd call it a weapon.
As far as Defender goes, as usual,.....who knows, but your info re 2020 certainly is interesting, but no-one really knows what's happening do they?
I for one & maybe a few on here might feel that whilst we love it, maybe the Defender as we know it, is a bit of a dinasaur, so maybe, if there is a "new" replacement, then maybe, it should have a "new" name.
But, it's all "myth & hearsay" at the moment anyway.
Pickles.

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Pickles,
I think we are on different pages of the same song book. I am talking about a vehicle with true 4x4 capability. You are talking about a 575hp RR worth $220.000. Am I going to toss a bail of hay in the back? Probably not. While it is obviously a magnificent vehicle and a "weapon" who is going to take a vehicle like that into the Victorian High Country (assuming you could get rims and tyres to fit). I agree that JLR are building vehicles which people want and they are all attractive or appealing vehicles to JLR's main target audience these days (hence my tongue in cheek comment about pretty vehicles) but apart from the Discovery, what use are they to those who want to use them for what a true 4x4 is used for.

I am well aware of the Defender's shortcomings and any new vehicle needs to be dragged into the modern era of safety, fit and finish. Whatever they call it must be modern, safe and functional but if it is just another Discovery or RR, why bother.

The Defender was meant to be replaced after the TD5 but then came the TDCI. Then the replacement was meant to be 2012 but same old same old. Then 2016, Defender gone with new model due 2017. Now it is speculated that it is now 2020 and beyond. Land Rover is living up to the catch-phrase "Go Beyond" with the Defender replacement that is for sure.:wasntme: