Why no TDV6?

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Originally Posted by camel_landy

Don't you just love all this speculation... :rolleyes:

M

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Why don't you clear it up with some facts then!

With the 3.2 all you have to do is decide which bits you are going to break first! :D

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Originally Posted by pannawonica

With the 3.2 all you have to do is decide which bits you are going to break first! :D

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What is there to decide? The bank gets broken first.

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Originally Posted by uninformed

Why don't you clear it up with some facts then!

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At a guess, LR fitted the 2.2 to get past the Euro5 emissions regs. Euro 6 was enough to kill off the Defender even with the Puma 2.2.

The TDv6 wouldn't meet new emissions reg that kick in this year for category N1 vehicles. The regs require 75% of a manufacturers N1 production to be compliant with a 175g/km CO2 emissions target. This ramps up to 100% by 2019. The D90 has an emissions spec of 266g/km and the Disco 4 is something like 230g/km.

Currently there is a small ramp up in the per g/km cost to manufacturers but from once the above the 175g/km threshold the penalty is €95 per g/km per vehicle, or roughly €8300//$12800AU on a D90.

You have to ask the question: why would LR invest in R&D towards fitting an engine that did nothing to improve the longevity of a model that was well past it's use by date anyway?

The obvious trend is to smaller turbo diesel's with fewer cylinders and lighter body/chassis construction to meet increasingly strict emissions regs, so don't be too surprised if LR release a Defender Replacement powered by sub-2.0L engines with 4 or fewer cylinders.

cheers
Paul

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Originally Posted by OffTrack

At a guess, LR fitted the 2.2 to get past the Euro5 emissions regs. Euro 6 was enough to kill off the Defender even with the Puma 2.2.

The TDv6 wouldn't meet new emissions reg that kick in this year for category N1 vehicles. The regs require 75% of a manufacturers N1 production to be compliant with a 175g/km CO2 emissions target. This ramps up to 100% by 2019. The D90 has an emissions spec of 266g/km and the Disco 4 is something like 230g/km.

Currently there is a small ramp up in the per g/km cost to manufacturers but from once the above the 175g/km threshold the penalty is €95 per g/km per vehicle, or roughly €8300//$12800AU on a D90.

You have to ask the question: why would LR invest in R&D towards fitting an engine that did nothing to improve the longevity of a model that was well past it's use by date anyway?

The obvious trend is to smaller turbo diesel's with fewer cylinders and lighter body/chassis construction to meet increasingly strict emissions regs, so don't be too surprised if LR release a Defender Replacement powered by sub-2.0L engines with 4 or fewer cylinders.

cheers
Paul

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You have got to wonder where all this emission stuff is going to end. :(

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Originally Posted by uninformed

Why don't you clear it up with some facts then!

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Where I can, I do but it often gets overlooked by the 'armchair experts'... ;)

M

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Originally Posted by camel_landy

You're getting confused with the different 2.2 power plants... The Defender engine is the one used in the transit van, Freelander uses the one in the Mondeo.

As for the TDV6, I'd guess there's just not the market for it. Granted, there is A market for it but not one big enough to cover the initial and ongoing development of a product.

M

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I can only speak for myself. I've bought 3 new Defenders in the last 4 years. Every one of them would have been a TDv6 or Duratorq 3.2 if either of those options were available. However I'm just one small data point. I'll buy one of the "new" (post Puma) Defenders if it appeals to me, but that is a wait-and-see game with lots of variables.

Issues:

1) TDV6 bottom end has proven to be unreliable in the long run. Plenty of people complaining about big-end bearing and crank issues

2) Electronics: BAS invested a huge amount of effort and money into that conversion.

3) Space: while the TDV6 isn't an LS3 or a Hemi, it's still wide.

I'd say the 3.2 Ford Durotorq with matched gearbox would be the best option today.

But hey, why would LR actually want to sell any more Deadenders?