The reason LandRover isnt building in this market

Sounds like TOJO need to lift their game!

I'm still hopeful re new Defender, especially if its a hybrid, slab-sided and rugged.

The shape thing is all about practicality IMO.

For a work vehicle nothing beats slab sided rectangular load spaces, practical mechanicals and ruggedness.

For the urban market, smooth flowing lines and sports cars that can also go off road seems to be the go.

Land Rover is squarely (or should that be curvedly?) in the second category with every single model it currently sells.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

I’d suggest that last point is wrong - very wrong.

The shape is what seems to be perceived as being the issue - if it isn’t a box it can’t be good offroad.

Reality is that the rounded shapes are aesthetically approved of by the urban buyers but the underpinnings are more functional offroad beyond the old SAS and ladder frame.

And much more user friendly on the urban run or travel legs to the offroad component.

I have Jeep owning friends, and if you want to be capable either start at Rubicon spec or be willing to lay down $10k plus to get capable.

I also spend significant time in offerings from Japan, Thailand etc... and fit and finish is appalling, rattles, electrical failures, seats like a slab of concrete...

And then there’s the after sales servicing and warranty...

I have NEVER had any work knocked back by LR on ANY of the multiple vehicles of their marque and have had several good faith items done well outside the offered warranty.

What I do have is continual poor service from the big T, poor workmanship, warranty dodging, lack of parts... what point is there having dealers and service agents everywhere if they can’t get simple replacement parts?

2 days they had the last vehicle, needed brakes, shocks and a service...
Well at the end of day 2 (and 2 hours after it was promised ready for collection) it has had a service - notable items are Oil all over engine, loose filter, air cleaner not replaced, washer bottle empty, wiper blade still obviously torn and non functional.

And the brakes and shocks; still on back order!

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That's just a **** poor excuse for a service centre all around by the sounds of it, and while I agree with a lot of what you say, there are better (slightly) dealers for the big T around. I got a service and new disks on the front of my Hilux while I waited - 1 1/2 all up, so looks like they only have a 1st year apprentice running the show there...[biggrin]

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Originally Posted by Homestar

That's just a **** poor excuse for a service centre all around by the sounds of it, and while I agree with a lot of what you say, there are better (slightly) dealers for the big T around. I got a service and new disks on the front of my Hilux while I waited - 1 1/2 all up, so looks like they only have a 1st year apprentice running the show there...[biggrin]

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And that’s the thing isn’t it [emoji41] except they didn’t have the apprentice in, he’s on Leave this week. They just couldn’t get the parts - nil stock at the warehouse.

We’ve tried several regionals around here and all are pretty **** Poor! We’ve even flat bedded to the City and still had poor work.
Feedback says it happens with most of the Vehicle dealers around here (excluding the VW dealer) and whilst Kia try to help just ask a friend who is on her 3rd driveline in her 8mth Old Kia.

Interestingly, Mum has a 200 killer wasp Rav...
Less than 30,000 on the clock and the leather seats cracked along the sides whilst under warranty.
“Wear and tear” was given and warranty refused.
A clunk in the front end that was not there before a service was treated as contempt when the vehicle was driven back in less than 1km on the odometer after service. Total denial from Toyota and a bill for repair of about $800.

Attempts at other dealerships also failed to resolve the Seats and a few other problems.

Now the most interesting bit - LR content - is that a significant amount of people complain of poor warranty and service support, which seems to be from a select few Eastern Seaboard dealers. Yet the SA dealers get a really good wrap for support (and have demonstrated that to several personally).

Yet the T dealers in SA are shocking, and Eastern States say they’re great...

LRRR Velar... "Never before has form upstaged function to such an extent on the very car whose whole birthright is based on the precise opposite philosophy." Daily Mail.

Well with thinking like that we’d all be living in a very boring world.

So a company isn’t allowed to branch out?

Or in a more human context - the job you first have is what you should do for the rest of your life?

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Originally Posted by DrytheRain

As for alternatives, the upcoming JL Wranger looks alright, but FCA reliability is allegedly worse than LR. The W461 would be great if it came with a manual and was about half the price.

Then there's the brand we all love to hate; the big T. But what do they give us? The 70, which is overpriced already and probably needs about $5-10,000 spent on it from new just so the damn thing handles properly. The Prado is, conceptually, probably the closest thing to a Defender (bear with me here), as an all-wheel drive, mid-size wagon, but it's just not the same is it?

Anyway, I'm off to drink more red wine and quietly stew.

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There is absolutely no need for MB to send a manual box G-wagen these days. I get the whole 'bump-start' thing, but the reality is that the auto box is SO much better and more capable.
Insofar as price is concerned, I'm half with you.
the 461 needs to drop about 35K (the "LCT" profit margin) from it's price, to make it truly competitive in the market - against the 76 & 79 - which is pretty much where it's squarely aimed at.
The 461's production line is not a fully-automated line like the toyota assembly. It's largely a hand-assembled vehicle line as the production vehicles are typically individual in their specification, and even the ADF runs are quite a 'big' task in that respect. This is but one of the reasons the G carries a high prce tag - because you're paying for real people to do real work, not electricity and a robot.

JLA don't deserve marketshare, until they right their wrongs.
They absolutely must step up to the plate and deliver an unequivocal level of customer service - remember the marketing BS??? "Above and Beyond" ??? yep. it needs to be all that AND a bag of chips.

It's not. and anyone who thinks it is is totally deluded. Doesn't matter if one dealer is better than another - the standard needs to be at the highest level across the entire contry, period.


Secondly, pitching luxury SUV to a cow cockie simply isn't going to work - but their market angle is for urban hipster tossers like I said previously. If they weren't redirecting all their energies into this earth closet of a demographic, then we'd arguably still have the defender - because the demand is constant. They gave us BS excuses like "Euro6" - and as I said earlier - they have had DECADES to work on product evolution -- and did nothing.

the Rugged, basic 4x4 market now falls directly to 3 brands globally. Toyota, with the 70 series. Jeep, with the wrangler and the 461 Gelandewagen, which is probably going to outlive all of us, and will never change, until the EU make 4x4's illegal or some other impetuous, childish stance.

These 3 companies know better than anyone out there, that despite the urban wankerisms, there is an absolute mandatory need for a basic spec vehicle to cover difficult terrain - and there are vehicles that they produce which meet this need. "Not" the most profitable production line, except maybe for the wrangler - but nonetheless, these vehicles all serve a dedicated useful and similar purpose.

LR just handed the market back to them to fight over. simple as that. There is no merit in arguing over it.

It's also quite evident to me from a number of recent posts that the one-eyed support for LR outstrips the love for other brands - and this is a LR forum, so it's to be expected.

I like my RRC, and it has obvious faults which I can live with (and have plans to rectify) but I don't hate on the LR brand like a one-eyed toyota owner.

I obviously own some classic Mercs, and have an affliction (or affection) but in the same tone, I also have a pragmatic and sincere lack of respect for the corporate whores at MB Australia who seek only to gouge their customers and do not deliver beyond taking peoples money. Mercedes-Benz is not the aspirational brand Janis Joplin once sang about. It's a corporate cash-cow.

The attitude of auto brands in this country towards the consumer is nothing short of abhorrent. If they showed a modicum of respect towards the public, then it would be an amazing epiphany, but that will not happen, when you have greedy asshats in politics and industry colluding with each other - and their sole intent is to gouge the public financially, then disappear.

And apparently there are enough asshat voters in this country who continue to perpetually assist in this occurring every 4 years.

One eyed may be a bit strong [emoji6]
More well exposed.... I spend time in a significant number of vehicle makes and models..

One eyed may be a bit strong [emoji6]

More well exposed.... I spend time in a significant number of vehicle makes and models..

I’ve never had a history of being brand bias until I returned to the 4wd world..

Then it was a case of what’s out there, that rides best, does the job best... AND... isn’t boringly soulless and bland.

Never wanted something that was mildly everything, wanted something that could meet all needs..

At the moment that’s the LR product. Although the Amarok came close!

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

LR needs to match the seven year warranties being offered by the Koreans to build market share.

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:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

LR boast about leading the market in many areas,but that is one area they don't lead at all.

Although they did jump from a 2yr/60K warranty to a 3yr/100K warranty pretty quickly from the first of the D2's.

And that was only to meet the competition.

But they do have roadside assist,which some of the large Jap brands don't have.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

I’d suggest that last point is wrong - very wrong.

The shape is what seems to be perceived as being the issue - if it isn’t a box it can’t be good offroad.

Reality is that the rounded shapes are aesthetically approved of by the urban buyers but the underpinnings are more functional offroad beyond the old SAS and ladder frame.

And much more user friendly on the urban run or travel legs to the offroad component.

I have Jeep owning friends, and if you want to be capable either start at Rubicon spec or be willing to lay down $10k plus to get capable.

I also spend significant time in offerings from Japan, Thailand etc... and fit and finish is appalling, rattles, electrical failures, seats like a slab of concrete...

And then there’s the after sales servicing and warranty...

I have NEVER had any work knocked back by LR on ANY of the multiple vehicles of their marque and have had several good faith items done well outside the offered warranty.

What I do have is continual poor service from the big T, poor workmanship, warranty dodging, lack of parts... what point is there having dealers and service agents everywhere if they can’t get simple replacement parts?

2 days they had the last vehicle, needed brakes, shocks and a service...
Well at the end of day 2 (and 2 hours after it was promised ready for collection) it has had a service - notable items are Oil all over engine, loose filter, air cleaner not replaced, washer bottle empty, wiper blade still obviously torn and non functional.

And the brakes and shocks; still on back order!

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I have had worse from LR,thats why my LR vehicles never go to the dealers,apart from warranty work.They go to an excellent Indie.

We have had a fleet of Tojo work vans,for many years,they all go to the dealer for every service.Enough said.

Maybe we are lucky,but never had to wait for a part ever,some of the vans have 300K on them.