Thread: The reason LandRover isnt building in this market

My defender is in the panel shop after getting T-Boned by a young girl a few months ago, just some panel damage but her Mazda 3 was written off. Her insurance has given me a new dual cab Hilux with 12,000km on it. Ive had the hilux for about 4 weeks now.. Its a very easy ute to live with for 80% of the things a work ute should do, the interior is good, sound system unreal, giant touch screen thingy a PITA to operate, but in comparison to the defender as a work tool, there is no comparison. Its very ordinary on rough/dirt roads, can't tow and feels unstable with a big trailer on it, and bottoms out a lot in off road work..I hope Landrover arnt targeting the Hilux as a bench mark to beat..

"We" ( the royal we) are currently going through "new car buying" exercises here at Schnauzer HQ.

A couple of weeks ago we testdrove a DS. Missus thinks it looks fan-freaking-tastic.

I think ... hmmm, okay-ish. a bit too plasticky, but prepared to "evaluate" So we did.

We came home a little deflated (actually a fair bit, tbh)

I did a blurb-writeup in the disco sport section, and after visiting quite a few other brand dealerships, can now offer some completely objective reasons why LR are not building marketshare.

1. Pricing point (way off when you compare it to the direct market competitors in it's class)
2. Warranty - not worth the paper it's written on - especially compared to the korean & japanese competition.
3. Specification - simply put, the DS spec is well below the equivalent competitors, and requires extensive "options" which are standard equip on other vehicles in the class - which then puts you back at point #1...
4. Fit & finish - Disregard whatever you've been told until you have a really really close look at one. Yes, we know that this is not an area where LR have a good track record on certain models in the past, but the 'now' is what matters and when you compare the overall build quality with (again - koreans and japanese) other manufacturers, there are obvious failings.

But you simply cannot convince a bilnd-faith follower that this is in fact the case, even when you put a directly competing car beside it.

Now, I'm using a Disco Sport as an example here, but it's quite obvious to us all here, that it's an "entry level" vehicle - designed to get unfamiliar buyers into the LR brand.

It just doesn't deliver beyond the looks - when you get down to brass tacks.
And there will be people willing to overlook the competition, because of the green oval.
There will also be many many potential buyers, who are astute enough to see a vehicle like the Disco Sport for what it actually is - an overinflated priced SUV, which the terrain response button will never get used on, except football season when navigating the muddy carpark and dad wants some mud sprayed up the sides to make it look more manly.

Then we have the Range Rover at the other end of the scale - which is LR's hallmark of offroading opulence. Priced accordingly. And no-one but the 1% of the filthy rich would ever dream of taking a $300K+ vehicle offroad - especially one which looks like it wouldn't survive the first decent scrabble up a hill in a state forest, without losing bumpers or gashing the sides along their entire length. No, that RR is a bitumen burner, which might see the snowfields in the winter for two seasons, before the lease runs out and the owner wants something different - because they can afford it.

And that leaves us with...... "where's the Defender?"

Yep, we've been asking that for the last 3 years, knowing full-well that LR completely misread the market by not doing any succession planning for it's aged warrior. The ONE model which singularly defines the entire brand globally, was uncermoniously dumped on it's arse when some idiot in the board room who knows sweet f-a about the brand said 'can it'.

Indeed, LR had decades to succession plan for a Defender. All auto manufacturers who want to stay competitive plan their models nearly a decade in advance, and the only reasons we get them sooner is thanks to the shorter lead times and increased rapidity (evolution) of compute power and the relevant CAD/CFD testing used industry-wide.

What was done was a mistake. We all know that. It's not a "failure to remain relevant" because the Defender still is relevant. What isn't relevant are the carmakers cow-towering to every hipster tosspot who wants their chai latte to remain at perfect temperature for their hourly commute in morning peak hour traffic, whilst sitting in an armchair on stilts, looking down on lesser mortals in their sensible small sedans - which are often ironically, the exact same thing, but without the jacked-up suspension and some shiny scuff-plates on the tailgate or sidepanels.

It's not just Land Rover either - I know we are mostly brand-loyalists - but not everyone is a blind follower, and most can see through corporate BS. What amazes me the most about the whole "marketshare" exercise, is the sincere lack of aggressive pricing and volume sales.

If you want marketshare the game strategy is simple. Offer your wares at a price that just cannot be laughed at, AND back it up with customer service experience that is second to none.

How do you think Hyundai and Kia got to be in the top 10 brands with regards to customer satisfaction?

By supporting their customers post-sale (something JLR ignore, to their own peril) and offering a competitive price on a very well-built vehicle. Sure, not a 'perfect' vehicle in many aspects, but in terms of value for money, build quality and standard options (and a reasonably short options list with non-exhorbitant pricing) these manufacturers have come from nowhere in the last 2 decades, to being all-conquering in the market.

So that's the bottom line.

Let's also not forget that Car reviewers - aka moroting journalists (if you can still call them journalists) are all on the marketing conga-line of suckholes when it comes to new vehicle launches - and they will quote verbatim whatever the PR / marketing director from the auto manufacturer has to say about the 'new model' and you'll hardly ever see anything negative written about a new vehicle, because it threatens the journos gravy-train and their bosses revenue source (auto manufacturer subsidized publications - i.e. "free advertising").

Now LR are as guilty as the next when it comes to PR and Marketing BS. "above and beyond" that's almost as BS-laden as "the best or nothing" but nowhere near as accurate as "oh what a feeling"....

LR have an opportunity to build marketshare - just like every other manufacturer - and come 2018 - the rules of engagement will get really tough, if the FCAI don't hoodwink politicians into their BS consumer-gouging practices being endorsed.

There is a lot of ground to cover for LR to gain SOLID marketshare and respect - and the first port of call is customer service - not customer ignorance. The disease by which all auto manufactures self-implode.

With all the hot air around the ACCC's alleged targeting of auto manufacturers, JLA have a unique opportunity to take advantage of the landscape (just as the japanese and koreans will) through strategic marketing and a better effort to keeping consumers happy - and the marketshare will simply come to them.

You don't get good sales without having a reputation for good customer service. Simple as that.

</rantover>

I'm still waiting for the Velar... and I'm hoping that it will be the 'market share' changing vehicle for Land Rover.

Hey Mercguy, the Velar is the most complex 'simplified' object ever to be pontificated about!

Sexy looking yes, but at $150K+ it's just a richer more complex Disco Sport or mini RRS.

Agree about Defender...no excuses for delay, unless it comes out as an awesome pragmatic functional hybrid. Then the wait may have been worth it.

Looking forward to see G Professional Wagon. But I cant afford one, so I reckon I'll be sticking with my current Defender for a long time to come if the price hikes at LR are anything to go by. I'll be surprised if new Defender isn't $75K ++

LRA seem to think the only market for them is up market - image of adventure. But you're right, without an awesome Defender in the line up, it all falls flat. Not to mention no service agents right across this continent where you want to take 4x4 vehicles!

LR needs to match the seven year warranties being offered by the Koreans to build market share.

Originally Posted by Zeros

Hey Mercguy, the Velar is the most complex 'simplified' object ever to be pontificated about!

Sexy looking yes, but at $150K+ it's just a richer more complex Disco Sport or mini RRS.

Agree about Defender...no excuses for delay, unless it comes out as an awesome pragmatic functional hybrid. Then the wait may have been worth it.

Looking forward to see G Professional Wagon. But I cant afford one, so I reckon I'll be sticking with my current Defender for a long time to come if the price hikes at LR are anything to go by. I'll be surprised if new Defender isn't $75K ++

LRA seem to think the only market for them is up market - image of adventure. But you're right, without an awesome Defender in the line up, it all falls flat. Not to mention no service agents right across this continent where you want to take 4x4 vehicles!

The Velar has got the name-dropping advantage and a visual promise of overt opulence and luxury that only the top of the line RR owned previously.
Styling wise it makes the RR, evoque and sport look dated. especially with the interior. It is fresh and funky. The outside is cleaner and less fussy.
PWM (people with money) or PWL's (people with leases) are going to love the velar as a status symbol.

I'm not a potential buyer, but am interested in looking at one - to see how well they execute on the detail. To me, that interior will be the make or break benchmark measurement of success.

and the w461 to me is the same as it is to you - nice to look at, but overpriced for this market and way too late to have any lasting impact on toyota sales.

Mercguy, it was interesting to read your thoughts on Land Rover's approach to things and why it isn't working for them (in some respects).

I'm still no closer to having my issues resolved, but I have made the comment to LRA customer service that as a brand, LR only seem interested in selling upmarket product to people in the inner cities. I also pointed out in their subsequent online survey that they seem only too happy to trade on the Series/Defender heritage, but leave rural customers like myself in the lurch and that it just isn't good enough.

I realise that I basically just post on here now to complain, but I've got a three year-old car worth c. $50k that is riddled with faults and I've basically had no help from the dealer network or distributor to get it fixed. Meantime the warranty has expired, so I'll be very lucky if they fix anything for me. If I take the car to a metro dealer for investigation, as proposed by LRA, I'm looking at three days off work and two nights' accommodation, then I'll have to do it all again at least once to get it repaired.

The galling thing is, I'm probably too invested in the car now to replace it and certainly will be if I have to shell out thousands of dollars of my own money to get it put right. Then if I do contemplate replacing it, what do I replace it with? LR have completely failed to replace a core model in their range in a timely manner and based on this experience, I'm not sure I'd want to buy another of their products.

As for alternatives, the upcoming JL Wranger looks alright, but FCA reliability is allegedly worse than LR. The W461 would be great if it came with a manual and was about half the price.

Then there's the brand we all love to hate; the big T. But what do they give us? The 70, which is overpriced already and probably needs about $5-10,000 spent on it from new just so the damn thing handles properly. The Prado is, conceptually, probably the closest thing to a Defender (bear with me here), as an all-wheel drive, mid-size wagon, but it's just not the same is it?

Anyway, I'm off to drink more red wine and quietly stew.

I hear you. Let's be honest, Land Rover dropping the ball with both Defender and rural service makes a bit of a joke of the brand.

Land Roving is over. The Velar is a sports car, like all other new Land Rovers. The next Defender will most likely be a SUV, or lighter duty work vehicle. McGovern has said it will compete with Hilux.

Unfortunately biting bullets is the only option now. Either fix your current Defender; or sell it and buy another Defender; or get a mortgage and buy a G Professional, or trade down to a dualcab and buy an Amarok. Otherwise cross your fingers and hope the next Defender is a true competitor to G Professional and 70 series as a work vehicle. (70 series is just a waste of money and fuel and the dual cabs still don't have airbags anyway).

Depending on what the issues are with yours, I'd be finding a great Indi LR specialist and fixing my Defender.👍

One only has to read the last page of this thread to get a feel for what JLR is doing to what is a very loyal consumer base. Unfortunately the dropping of the defender means they really are just changing their focus to softroaders with leather and chrome bits and no longer care about their offroad reputation.

I hold no hopes for the new defender. As soon as I heard monocoque I switched off because it simply wont be as capable no matter what electronic crap they bolt on to compensate. Mercguy completely nailed it with his appraisal, I found myself nodding several times as I read it.

In my humble opinion they should have done what Jeep did with regards to the wrangler. As times changed the wrangler changed to meet them i.e. safety, interior (although its too SUV like for my taste) which kept the car viable. Now I know they weren't hand made, and the body has changed much more than the defender has, but they kept the capability while improving build quality and safety to meet the times. No reason why the defender couldn't have retained the same basic shape while addressing things like safety and build quality, unfortunately it remained too unchanged and ended up being left behind.

Unless im completely wrong about the new defender I think we will all just have to accept that land rovers are no longer an offroad manufacturer, and have become just another regurgitator of the same SUV **** that every other brand spews forth.