Thread: Best 110 tough touring suspension set up

Originally Posted by The Cone of Silence

Hi Steve,

I recommend The Ultimate Suspension in Ingleburn, south Sydney. I went there on recommendation from Daniel at Mulgo and Brendan looked after me really well. A bespoke set-up for my Puma 110 Wagon with King Springs, a DC Prop shaft and springs with airbags in the rear. Shocks were their own - built to their specification and all comes with full warranty.

Give them a call.

Cheers

Bobby

thanks, great tip have car booked in next Tuesday

Originally Posted by ScottyD

Spent a while trying to get mine right. Completely agree that setup's are personal and subjective. You must weigh your truck before doing anything. I haven't listed anything technical about handling below, just how the car felt to me.

I went through:

1. Std 2011 110 Springs + Std Shocks - So much sag and I found the handling inconsistent/floaty especially once loaded up.

2. Genuine HD 110 F/R Springs + Std Shocks - Front sat too high, Rear too Low. Handling was better but still inconsistent/floaty.

3. TF Medium F/R Springs + TF Pro Sport 2" Front Shock + TF Big Bore 2" Rear Shock - Handling was softer than standard, better controlled. Went down the track of dislocation cones etc. I had endless problems with the rear sway bar inverting regardless of what I did. The Rear dislocation cones were so noisy too.

4. TF Medium F/R Springs + Pro Sport + Std Length Bilsteins (Rears are the firmer version) - What a difference, but was a little firm on road and lacked flex off road in the front. Front sat a little too high, Rear a little too Low.

5. Les Richmond Springs 180lbs Front, 320lbs Rear + Std Length Bilsteins (Rears are the firmer version) - In love. Can definitely be firm on road over small bumps but it never feels too firm and never feels out of control or floaty. Off road or on large bumps on road the control is amazing. Flex/grip off road is excellent too. Bump stops are about 80/110mm loaded F/R.

It is worth mentioning I setup my fender for touring with weigh split of around 1000/1800 F/R.
Hope that all makes sense

Similar story. I killed a set of Ultimate shocks on one outback trip. Tried billies in the rear (not bad but not like the Raids). I tried Lovells and King Springs and settled on 180lb LRA springs in the front and 290lb LRAs in the rear so very similar to you. It is a great setup. Been through the HC, on some of the tougher tracks and had no issues.

Personally for touring I'd forget the 2" lift and get Raids as a set and forget shock that will deal with anything.

If I spent more time rock hopping and wanted more clearance/travel/flex then I'd look at a different setup, maybe one of the LRA long travel kits or something, but for touring the lift in a Defender is a moot point IMO unless you are wanting to run bigger rubber and need the height.

Interesting from Les Richmonds web site

As the above list proves retrofitting any of the Toyota or Nissan shockers into a Land Rover is not worthwhile. The two best non Land Rover shoclers are the Toyota 75 series rear and the Nissan GQ/GU rear. Even though they are rear shockers they would have to fitted to the front. to fit these the mounts have to modified by 44mm to achieve a minimal 23mm of extra travel. The most important figure to look at is the closed length in relation to the factory shocker closed length. What this figure means is if a shocker is fitted with a longer closed length the suspension is unable to fully travel upwards or bottom out. This will decrease shocker life and in accident situations can be dangerous. Vehicles are made with safty margins and when modifications are made it is important not to affect these margins. The White Tiger 30% travel kit has been made to take all these perametres into account.
The next measurement to look at is how much extra travel will be obtained fitting the shockers. As quite visable in the chart above some shockers do not actually offer alot more travel even though they are quite long in the open length. Also check the mounting systems and how much work is required to fit them, the valving of the shocker, is it suitable for another vehicle. There are many many factors to take into account and to be aware of.

All figures supplied above are for standard monotube Bilstein shockers.

More to the travel argument. LR Automotive has spent a lot of time and effort to supply a shocker to improve the already great Land Rovers wheel travel. For example we could have had shockers made with 150mm more travel and yes it would look impressive in full articulation but the engineering would be enormous and the actual improvement would be next to nothing over the long travel shockers we currently supply. Not to mention how unstable and dangerous the vehicle would be in cornering and side slopes.

The reason for this statement is: A vehicles wheel travel is only as good as the wheel with the least amount of traction on an articulation ramp. We have found that once the wheels articulate more then aprox 2 ¼ inches over standard the unloaded wheel is not driving the vehicle forward. Thus giving no real value to forward motion. A vehicle with true wheel travel should be measured without the assistance of front or rear diff lock or automatic locker of any type. Once the unloaded wheel spins the car will no longer drive forward. This is true useful wheel travel. If a front or rear diff lock is engaged the vehicle can drive further up the ramp. It might raise a wheel by another 100mm or more before the unloaded wheel actually lifts off the ground, but this wheel has not assisted in the vehicles forward movement. In competitions the vehicle with the most wheel travel wins. I have not yet competed without the use diff locks and the winners are mainly vehicles with drop axles (when the spring is no longer attached to the body, only to the axle). It looks impressive but actually serves no purpose and is extremely dangerous. These wheel travel comps should not allow the assistance of diff locks of any type.

Les Richmond Automotive uses the White Tiger long travel kit along with custom long travel Koni shockers to set up classic Range Rover’s and Discovery’s. When fitted the axle will drop from a factory length of 6 ½” to 9” measured at the bump stop. This is around 30% more wheel travel. Depending on the vehicle and personal requirements the maximum LR Automotive will raise a vehicle is 4 ½” front and 6” rear bump stop clearance. This set up gives in round figures 4 ½” up travel and 4 ½” down travel in the front and 5 ½” up travel and 3 ½” down travel. This is a great balance of upwards and downwards travel which is safe and very useable. If raising a vehicle to this height LR Automotive would highly recommend the fitting of modified swivel housings to correct the front axle geometry giving the vehicle factory specifications even though it is a far from factory vehicle. See Castor Correction Solutions.

Spring Facts

Springing a vehicle also can increase or decrease how effective a vehicle is on an articulation ramp. The softer the springs the more static wheel travel is available. This is great for the ramp up test but in reality it is not the best. The way we like to set up vehicles on articulation ramps is to have about 1.5" to 2" bump stop clearence when the unloaded wheel raises off the ground. The reason for this is to allow for vehicle momentum. The momentum even at 10Km/h witt close the 1.5" to 2" giving a smoother and more controlable drive. The softly sprung vehicles will bottom out onto the bump stop harder causing the vehicle to jerk / bounce. We at LR Automotive also like to add a slightly stronger spring to the front. Even though it will not articulate as well on hilll climbs when all the vehicle weight is transfered to the back of the car but will work much better on down hill decents allowing the front axle to move freely with less bottoming out. We have many springs available for Land Rover, and the choice can be a bit daunting. Visit our Coil Spring section to understand what we offer.

In my experience Ultimate are great to deal with. I have dealt with Brendan a number of times and he goes out of his way for you. I found LRA to be the opposite initially but they came good and were very helpful in the end.

The kit that Ultimate sent me didnt work, but they also did it sight unseen and based on limited knowledge of the vehicle. Long story but I ordered via a friends business and just got their standard Defender setup. I should have gone direct and let Brendan grill me about the vehicle setup. If you go in to see them I doubt you'll be disappointed.

Personally, with the benefit of hindsight I'd be talking to LRA as well. They have springs and shocks made and modified specifically for landys. Get some axle weights and let them know what you want and I reckon you'll be happy with them as well.

No reason why Ultimate wont get LRA springs in for you and combine with their shocks either. Could be a good source of LR specific springs for Ultimate.

Originally Posted by steane

In my experience Ultimate are great to deal with. I have dealt with Brendan a number of times and he goes out of his way for you. I found LRA to be the opposite initially but they came good and were very helpful in the end.

The kit that Ultimate sent me didnt work, but they also did it sight unseen and based on limited knowledge of the vehicle. Long story but I ordered via a friends business and just got their standard Defender setup. I should have gone direct and let Brendan grill me about the vehicle setup. If you go in to see them I doubt you'll be disappointed.

Personally, with the benefit of hindsight I'd be talking to LRA as well. They have springs and shocks made and modified specifically for landys. Get some axle weights and let them know what you want and I reckon you'll be happy with them as well.

No reason why Ultimate wont get LRA springs in for you and combine with their shocks either. Could be a good source of LR specific springs for Ultimate.

I am starting to sell their products shortly down here, I have found ken and Brendan very helpful and VERY knowledgeable. I have a complete kit on order for the work ute, and will be ready to sort Defender and Disco kits soon.

High quality stuff, and local input/ manufacture.

JC

Originally Posted by justinc

I am starting to sell their products shortly down here, I have found ken and Brendan very helpful and VERY knowledgeable. I have a complete kit on order for the work ute, and will be ready to sort Defender and Disco kits soon.

High quality stuff, and local input/ manufacture.

JC

Sounds good.

Found out yesterday why I'm bottoming out. After speaking to Andrew from LRA and he suggesting the TF kits often don't include all necessary parts it seems like they don't supply brackets to raise the rear shock mounts by the extra 2" inches so the shock itself is is hitting its stops and can't fully compress.

Not very impressed by the Terrafirma stuff I have to say.

Gordon from oposit lock recommended tough dog adjustable big bore.

Won't go with bilestein due to the single tube design so either LRA Koni or Ultimate suspension.

I like that they will look at who car and I guess less guess work is involved, they also seem to be the cheapest

Originally Posted by Steve223

Found out yesterday why I'm bottoming out. After speaking to Andrew from LRA and he suggesting the TF kits often don't include all necessary parts it seems like they don't supply brackets to raise the rear shock mounts by the extra 2" inches so the shock itself is is hitting its stops and can't fully compress.

Not very impressed by the Terrafirma stuff I have to say.

Gordon from oposit lock recommended tough dog adjustable big bore.

Won't go with bilestein due to the single tube design so either LRA Koni or Ultimate suspension.

I like that they will look at who car and I guess less guess work is involved, they also seem to be the cheapest

I couldn't agree more, the TF stuff was less than average. I took mine to Ultimate suspension and they have been awesome, just be very clear on what you would like to do with the vehicle and how you plan to use the vehicle and they will get it right or at least they did with mine.