Thread: 2016 'Defender'

Thanks for that insight John. It is a very accurate over view. The one thing that makes me wonder wether that is their intention is their move to the manufacture of the new Defender off shore.
To manufacture it in large numbers in Britain would require investment in a large new plant. If it is their intention to build another 'Middle Class' car there would be no need to go off shore.
They can make a cheeper, high quality, high volume product by engaging existing high quality component manufacturers close to a main plant where most of the product would be built.
This was, after all, the same method that Toyota used, although it was all done in Japan in their case.
Cheers, Billy.

The Sky hasn't fallen yet gentlemen, and while some of you think the forecast suggests rain, I have my confidence it will be far sunnier than predicted

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Well, I certainly don't have a problem with anything that JLR is doing. Taken themselves from the very verge of Bankruptcy, to now become one of the most progressive car manufacturers in the World. EVERY new model they have introduced has been an outsanding success.
Take Evoque for example, 100,000+ sales in its first year, Disco Sport,...massive waiting lists, compare that with defender,...prior to this last year of "last chance demand", it was around 17000 WORLD WIDE,...clearly unsatisfactory.
So, what will the "New" Defender be like?....Well it'd better appeal better than the old one?...What will it be like?......massive differences of opinion just in this thread,....What should it be like.....again massive differences of opinion,.....and all fair enough,.......BUT........JLR will have to make, in all probability have already made, the decision,.....What it "WILL" be,bearing in mind it will have to sell,......no point in making some "niche" vehicle,........that is not how companies survive these days,....unless the price is such that there is a HUGE margin.
So, a big decision for JLR, I reckon that they have proven thay they know what they're doing,....the "New" Defender may not be what we like or want, but "We" are very much in the minority,......as far as the World market is concerned,......I reckon that whatever they produce will be a winner.
What that "winner" is?.....Nobody knows!!..Pickles.

Exactly pickles.
Let's face it, it won't matter what the new Defender is, people are going to be unhappy.
People have been unhappy with basically every update land rover has done in the last 30 years, and look where it is now.
All things must pass, the Defender has had a damn good run, and cemented itself in the history books, but it's a relic. Its time to move on, and the future is much more exciting when you look at it with a glass half full approach.

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Jeep have trodden a successful development path from the TJ to the JK Wrangler in a niche market and have achieved long term sustainability of a vehicle that is certainly not without "Character" or unfit for purpose.
So it should be possible for LR to keep everyone reasonably happy.

Regards,
Tote

Originally Posted by MrLandy

I've seen plenty of evidence with the DC100 concept (despite us being told it's been scrapped) and the way the rest of the Land Rover model line up is heading, to be very concerned, and conversely nothing tangible whatsoever to demonstrate otherwise.

The DC100 is a five year old concept that was widely criticised and explicitly scrapped. Concept cars are there to test the market, nothing more.

As for the rest of the line up, so what? The Defender is a totally different pillar in the brand. Take a look at Porsche. People were up in arms when they started producing the Cayenne and now the Macan SUVs, but the fact is, these hugely profitable products were needed to fund the continued development of the 'true' Porsche, the iconic 911.

Try to think about Land Rover in the same way. The luxury SUV market is where the money is, and they've tapped into that with great success. That doesn't mean the Defender has to go down the same path, it just means they've got enough in the coffers to keep it going as a true representation of its heritage.

I think you're confusing what I'm saying it should be with what I'm concerned it won't be. I'm simply going on the evidence in front of me that so far clearly indicates a luxury urban cruiser focus for the Land Rover brand. And we've seen no hard evidence yet to dispel that about Defender.

The Defender will be more comfortable, more refined, safer, better built, more modern looking and appealing to more people. That doesn't mean it'll be a Range Rover with some chequer plate on the bonnet. The evidence, and logic, suggests to me that it'll remain true to the car it's replacing. If I'm wrong, then I guess we'll all just rest easy knowing we're lucky enough to own the last of the true Land Rovers.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Unfortunately, much as I hate to say it, I fear that MrLandy is likely to be right.

It may help to look at a bit of history.

Rover got into the car manufacturing business (from bicycles) over a hundred years ago. In the 1920s, they tried to emulate Austin and Morris (who had taken a leaf from Henry's book!), but the result of this was the appointment of a new board by their bankers, who appointed a new MD called Wilkes. He steered the company into success making cars for a niche market - middle class (British) urban buyers. This was so successful that the company grew very significantly as a military manufacturer during WW2.

After the war, faced with a government determined to remove classes in Britain (including their market) and post-war shortages, they found, more or less by accident, another niche market - light civilian four wheel drives, mainly selling to primary production, mining and exploration, and governments of all types. This expanded as cash strapped post-war military purchasers over much of the world turned to Landrovers as a cheaper, but 'good enough' substitute for specialised military vehicles.

The introduction of the Rangerover moved one of their Landrover products into their primary middle class market, by coincidence, at the same time as a merger with Leyland meant loss of control of the company. Ultimately, this led to the downgrading of the Rover name to the Austin/Morris mass market. At the same time, the niche Landrover and Rangerover were neglected by the new owners.

Following the sell off of Landrover/Rangerover from Leyland, the company, which was really the original Rover company, put their effort into the Rangerover, moving it further up market. Upmarket can be very profitable, but it is very unstable, and the history of the car industry is littered with the remains of companies that made only products near the top of the market.

With the company facing serious trouble with the ageing Defender and Rangerover (which had been steadily moving up market) both needing a lot of investment, they returned in the late eighties to the same market that had saved the company in the thirties - the middle class - with the Discovery. This was so successful that the company is now one of the most successful car manufacturers in the world. But this leaves the Defender with little development in the last twenty-five years, being manufactured by a company that sells all the rest of their products to the middle to upper class urban market.

And this market, that Rover had pretty much to themselves in the fifties, has been largely taken by the very large manufacturers who have been able to supply it with modified versions of their mass produced vehicles, taking much of the market, thanks mainly to their dealer network and the lower costs of mass production.

Unfortunately, this situation is still there - despite their success, Landrover is still a small manufacturer in global terms, and I have to wonder whether they will attempt to wrest this market back from the likes of Toyota, or simply merge the Defender label into their existing, successful, market.

John

The 70's were a long time ago John,except for the FL1 Land Rover have not put a foot wrong in decades,me thinks people are too busy hearing what they want to hear instead of whats actually happening. Pat

Originally Posted by Pickles2

The Ranger is a VERY impressive vehicle. I read a recent comparison where it even knocked off the new HiLux.
Pickles.

I read a report recently where it got knocked off by more than the Ranger.

I have a 2.2 manual.... apart from the gearbox......it's just not smooth.... and if you hurry downchanges you could be anywhere....

Other than that , especially for it's price , it is quite impressive.