Puma 2.2 110 must upgrades?

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Originally Posted by DazzaTD5

As I'd assume most Land Rover repairers would know, clutch replacement (a faulty ford thing), rebuilding the centre diff (excessive side gear shim wear), rear diff rebuilds, and rear axle replacement (excessive worn splines) is a pretty common "puma" thing. I prolly do more of the above work on puma Defenders than the previous TD5 model to the point I'm now having to keep parts in stock.

Clutch - This is a known fault and has plagued other vehicle models including the Ford Ranger, Mustang (from memory??) etc. The APT clutch kit seems to resolve this. As for the gearbox itself, I personally believe its a step forward in terms of reliability over the older R380.

Centre Diff - My own theory of this is the preload is not done correct from factory, there is a reason the two shims at each end of the centre diff assembly are called a "selective thrust". I suspect on build one size selective thrust is used, so some assemblies are going to be a bit tight, while others are going to have too little preload, thus causing excessive side gear movement and therefor wear. This wear is also compounded by drivers that dont use the centre diff lock while offroad and are simply relying on the traction control.

Axles - Although from that point Land Rover put in a axle seal, excessive outer spline wear became the norm, Ive had numerous new Defenders in with as little as 70K with terrible out spline wear, which makes one ponder the quality of the axles/drive hubs used. Upgrading to the HTE axle sets and front drive flanges solves this, even if you dont remove the axle seal. The outer spline is easy to lube by remove the screw on cap, packing grease in the cap and screwing it back on. This pushes grease into the splines and becomes a standard item to do at service intervals.

Rear Diff - 2002 onwards Defenders used the P38 diff, the failures seem higher, but once rebuilt if done correctly that really should be it. I fail to understand how a diff can be repaired/replaced three times??? Even under warranty, why would they not rebuild the diff (as its then going to be fixed once) nor can I see how that can be blamed on the manufacturer.

Other mechnical items to do:
*Change grease nipples on front prop shafts to a 90 deg one will actually allow a grease gun to be connected.
*Add a grease nipple to the clutch pedal pivot shaft.
*Underbody corrosion protection.

Again, personally I think the puma Defender is a good improvement over the previous model in terms of overall reliability.

Ofcourse once a Defender owner gets that bug there are heaps of cool mods to do.

Regards
Daz

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Thank you Daz. This is some of the best help I have had in one single post. I appreciate your time for writing such detailed information.


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Originally Posted by 1nando

29000 kms. Never tows, hardly any heavy off road use. I'm a professional driver so I'm pretty sure I can drive......I think I've just been unlucky .

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I don't think you've been unlucky,I think your dealer is just throwing parts at your vehicle in the vain hope it fix's it,you cannot have three faulty diffs.If you look at your vehicle,all the parts you have had replaced gives us a reason to believe they are all drive line clunks or backlash problems and the usual fix is to replace that pesky useless P38 diff,I've had that very same problem twice and I told my dealer straight out that the diff is not being replaced,the reason is because I can lock the handbrake,jack one wheel and get stuff all movement when rotating the lifted wheel.My first problem was caused by the axle drive flanges wearing,$70 later I had steel ones and problem solved,second time it started clunking on take off and then really bad when on/off the throttle,that was the adapter shaft failing.My vehicle has now got 110,000k's on it and to get it to clunk I have to dump the clutch,my Tdi has got 470,000k's on it and it doesn't clunk unless I dump the clutch,it's never had the center diff shimmed but it did wear out the axle flanges.The clutch,axle flanges and adapter shaft are all known fault points and all cause a cranky drive line,the A frame joint is another,you don't have enough miles for that but it gives the impression of a sloppy P38 diff,these vehicles have been going for 8 years now,if the gearbox's had a fault like spline wear,bearing faults etc they would have shown up by now but they haven't,I would not look at the gearbox-T/C for the problem.Just lastly a bloke I shoot rifles with works for WA diff centre,he works on lots of LR's,two last week and he told me on saturday that it's worn bearings that causes most LR diff's to be replaced,with rebuilt originals or Ashcrofts if you want more strength. Pat

1nando, I have taken a break from this forum for 12 months and to come back and read your post nothing has changed. Please don't loose faith in the vehicle, as it seems since Tdci was released in 07, most of what was the problem then, is still now. Lets face it, if LR do not change the body or front diffs in 25 years, transfer boxes or rear diffs in 15 or so, they aren't going to change manufacturing contracts or failures to quick. I'd just play the game (look concerned but really who gives toss as it's under warranty) until its out of warranty, then shazam! ithe ol Defender becomes reliable.

I've had all sorts of things happen to my 2010. Odd things like a new transfer box because my clutch was rattly. The car ran fine, it had a slight clutch noise so I asked a question about it, and that was the result. That was on the second clutch. Still it was no cost to me and the cars behaves now with 125k as it did then with 60k on it.

I've always thought after the fact, if I just sent my P38 to a diff shop to be re shimmed or adjusted it would have ridded all the bangs I had in the drive line. After repeated "na that's normal" from the dealer I ended up putting a Salisbury in which solved all the bangs and clunks instead. LR would not even have the P38 checked, and I was going on a long remote trip and didn't want a failure, so I had to do something. I don' t believe for one second those bangs are normal, and mine is living proof. No one would make a car and honestly think that is acceptable for a brand new vehicle. Well LR does it seems. Or perhaps to scabby to stop getting the drive great assembles where ever they do. Poland? Ucrain?

There are blokes on here who have used lockers on standard axels, and used them hard and regularly. 2 to 3 years before the flanges conked out. But if the flanges are well greased, something LR don't seem overly astute to, they will last for some time in open diffs with normal use IMO.

To be honest just let the warranty period do it's thing. Maintain a good relationship with the dealer and marvell at how much new stuff you get. Mine got re bushed at the end because I asked for them to have a look. Maybe new axels and flanges could be order if you ask.

1Nando,

There is some good information on the following video that would be worth reviewing, I would think most of the basic content would be valid across various models. Watch the end for tips on different issues and causes...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHCMZq-XYqo[/ame]

Plenty of other content on this Guys Channel

best regards

Bernie

IMHO, I think a lot of puma issues are compounded by the dealers (or the dealer to Jaguar Land Rover relationship??), owners taking their new Defender back to the dealers countless times to repair the same fault again again and again.

I'm sure like plenty of other indy Land Rover repairers, it really didnt take me too long to work out "new" issues with the Defender puma when they first started to come in with problems. Most were nothing more than a progression from repairs already learnt over the years with previous Defender, Discovery models. Some like the clutch rattle (gets thrown around as "gearbox rattle on idle") arent a new thing from a repairers point of view, but it wasnt a common thing on Defenders (some may remember 300tdi would do it now and then).

Don't know about other indys, but I'm not actually a rocket scientist and working on Land Rovers isnt rocket science (but does require some passion I guess (reads, Im a nut job?)) So how the hell do dealers seem to mis-diagnose or simply arent repairing the fault, how could they possibly not have learnt the faults of a model???

For the ones that have had "endless" faults with their Defender puma, my guess would be they are over the run around, back and forth, issues not resolved more than the actual vehicle fault itself.

This really isnt a "promo" for indy Land Rover repairers, its just how I see it (and quite happy if a mod feels the need to delete this post).

On topic to the thread though..
Axles - If your Defender puma is shiny new, get the drive flanges (yes leave the original axles) changed out to the HTE ones (standard width splines), this as already mentioned will allow the greasing of the outer splines as a normal service item and should in theory prevent early wear.

Regards
Daz

Daz,steady up mate,writing replies about the TDCi defender based on first hand knowledge and facts is not allowed here or you'll be forever labelled a one eye blinkered fanboy like me,or did you not know that?. Pat

[QUOTE=DazzaTD5;2339883

On topic to the thread though..
Axles - If your Defender puma is shiny new, get the drive flanges (yes leave the original axles) changed out to the HTE ones (standard width splines), this as already mentioned will allow the greasing of the outer splines as a normal service item and should in theory prevent early wear.

Regards
Daz[/QUOTE]

Could someone expand on this, whats HTE and if a non dealer changes the flanges more warranty hassles?

I like AndyG would love if someone could please explain this axle stuff in a little more detail please......

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Take a wheel off and you will see the cast axle drive flange bolted to the outside of the hub,take the rubber cap off with a screwdriver and you will see the end of the axle poking out,with the handbrake locked turn the wheel left/right and watch for movement between the axle and flange,there will be and that movement causes a clunk.Change the cast ones for aftermarket steel ones. Pat

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Originally Posted by AndyG

Could someone expand on this, whats HTE and if a non dealer changes the flanges more warranty hassles?

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Doesn't affect warranty and fix's an annoying problem.Buy them from the UK,they are cheap. Pat