Thread: The philosophical 2018 Land Rover Series VI / Defender / 'Icon'...

Originally Posted by Pickles2

AFAIAC, I don't think anyone has any idea what the new Defender will be.
JLR have done an incredible job of not letting ANYTHING out.
However, the market is totally different now, to when the basis of our vehicles were conceived, and I'm not sure what market JLR will want to enter into, & compete, with any "New" Defender.
How much emphasis will they place upon it? They may be happy to more concentrate on the "leisure" type vehicles, Evoque, Disco, & of course Range Rover etc, that have given them so much sales success.
I can't see that it will be as "Utalitarian" as the current Defender, and it'll have to be substantially cheaper to achieve volume sales against the multitude of other stuff out there, particularly as there are many price conscious, "just a work tool" buyers in this segment.
Just my thoughts, Pickles.

The market hasn't changed,the people have,gone are the days when people slapped down $70,000 for a vehicle with no floor mats,vinyl seats,no Air Con or Air Con that only blows from the dash etc etc.Ask on here what people want in the new Defender,bigger motor,diff locks,more cabin space,you can buy one,it's called a 78 series,cab chassis,troopy or dual cab but no one buys them,not even the die hards,wonder why?.Look at the market,why is Jeep outselling Prado?,better drive,better motor/gearbox for less money,why are light duty utes outselling the mighty LC,better ride,better motors/gearboxs,A/C that works,comfy seats for less money.Declan and I went to the air museum all Bull Creek today in the TDCi,drove up the freeway at a comfortable 100k's an hour,A/C on low,comfy seats,no noise all good,would I want to do it in a series throw back like everyone wants the new defender to be,100k's an hour listening to the engine and gearbox scream their nuts off while sliding around on sweating vinyl seats,screw that. Pat

Originally Posted by PAT303

The market hasn't changed,the people have,gone are the days when people slapped down $70,000 for a vehicle with no floor mats,vinyl seats,no Air Con or Air Con that only blows from the dash etc etc.Ask on here what people want in the new Defender,bigger motor,diff locks,more cabin space,you can buy one,it's called a 78 series,cab chassis,troopy or dual cab but no one buys them,not even the die hards,wonder why?.Look at the market,why is Jeep outselling Prado?,better drive,better motor/gearbox for less money,why are light duty utes outselling the mighty LC,better ride,better motors/gearboxs,A/C that works,comfy seats for less money.Declan and I went to the air museum all Bull Creek today in the TDCi,drove up the freeway at a comfortable 100k's an hour,A/C on low,comfy seats,no noise all good,would I want to do it in a series throw back like everyone wants the new defender to be,100k's an hour listening to the engine and gearbox scream their nuts off while sliding around on sweating vinyl seats,screw that. Pat

The market HAS changed, and it's not only about people.
Actually, I think we do agree, but we've put it differently.
What I mean when I say the market's changed is that there are now many many bigger, cheaper, more powerful variants about, that will "do the job" (which is all that many people in this segment, tradies, construction workers etcs are looking for)..there are many many more choices than there ever has been, at relatively, and in some cases VERY cheap prices, and this is the market that the new Defender will be up against.
What I'm saying is, I don't know how much emphasis/effort JLR will want to place on this market, which has changed, with respect to the increasing number of very price competitive makes/models/variants over the years.
To be honest, and I could be totally wrong here, I don't see any new Defender getting into its "old" market at all.
Pickles.

I think it will,every ute you buy now except for the defender is not fit for purpose,none can carry their rated load,none can tow their rated capacity and none can go off road.A modern defender with Discovery interior space and comfort,150kw/500nm motor with manual or auto option with the all round ability of the present model without the need of GVM upgrades,suspension upgrades,WDH etc with three different body styles,tray,dual and wagon for sub $60k will eat this market alive. Pat

Originally Posted by PAT303

I think it will,every ute you buy now except for the defender is not fit for purpose,none can carry their rated load,none can tow their rated capacity and none can go off road.A modern defender with Discovery interior space and comfort,150kw/500nm motor with manual or auto option with the all round ability of the present model without the need of GVM upgrades,suspension upgrades,WDH etc with three different body styles,tray,dual and wagon for sub $60k will eat this market alive. Pat

That's your best description yet Pat, send it off to Gerry!

...as I keep saying, I hope you're right! ...but it all comes down to Land Rover's current design philosophy, which is decidedly not Heavy Duty work vehicle oriented. If they "transform the [Defender] from a rugged workhorse to a 'family' of trendy beach-buggy style leisure vehicles", it's all over.

Who cares what the new defender will be like? I won't and the reason is they won't be under $15k for a long time yet

By that time we'll have used all of the fossil fuels up and my D2 will be converted to run on hydrogen by the government because they care.

No, by the time I can afford one we'll actually have had a mass extinction event on the planet caused by the middle class have to haves. I'll just keep pootling along in my D2 and wait for the inevitable ; )

Pricey

Having a 130 on order it might be relevent to explain my requirements and what led me to choose a 130 and what I would like a replacement to offer.
Coming from a D3 I'm going to miss the comfort and power it offers but we need a vehicle that will allow us all ( 2 adults, 2 kids) to travel to our farm in one vehicle with a reasonable load capacity without necessarily towing a trailer. The vehicle also needs to be a competent and reliable tourer for the several trips away a year that we do to places as diverse as the Simpson and Mt Pinnibar.
Contenders were:
Dodge Ram 2500 Dual cab: Unfortunately too expensive but it does offer the availability of leather trim and a comfort level that comes close to the D3.

Ford Ranger Wildtrack: Has the leather, the cost is OK but once I buy it I have to spend $2500.00 on a lift kit and I still cannot option a tray instead of a ute back and cannot option leather on the XLT which would be closer to the spec I need.

Defender 130: Optioned with a few comforts it delivers most of what I need although the comfort factor does not compare with the Ram. It is capable out of the box and improving that capability is at a reasonable price.

What would kill the Dual cab ute market in Aus: A defender replacement that is capable out of the box, has some level of comfort and the ability to option it up to the level that a US pickup provides. Some niceties like air suspension would be good but my experience with the D3 was that the suspension advances had more impact on on road performance than off road while still providing the capability, maybe something that is less relevant for the dual cab market.
It would also be good if they could achieve the Wrangler trick and deliver something that looks like a Defender but has all the mod cons underneath with an option to appeal to the hard core market like the Rubicon does for the Wrangler.

Regards,
Tote

The Japanese philosophy of Wabi Sabi might go some way to describing the intangible nature of Land Rover Series and Defender vehicles...

'Characteristics of the wabi-sabi aesthetic include asymmetry, asperity (roughness or irregularity), simplicity, economy, austerity, modesty, intimacy, and appreciation of the ingenuous integrity of natural objects and processes.'

And not only in terms of the vehicles design and manufacturing processes including being virtually the last hand built production vehicle we'll ever see, but also in terms of the experiential nature of driving one...Roving to be exact.

All of the above Wabi Sabi characteristics are what make Roving/Wandering/Experiencing the World in a Defender or Series Land Rover vehicle unique. This is what is being lost to the Land Rover brand with the end of Defender. Something far more valuable than money.

The rush to 'modernise' everything in the name of fiscal profit and luxury, destroys the very essence of Land Rovers origins.

The good news is that the more use a Defender or Series Land Rover gets, the more dents, the more patina...the more beautiful is its Wabi Sabi nature.

Starting to notice some alarming similarities between defender ownership and Stockholm syndrome

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