Thread: Puma 2.4 coolant loss, cracked head?

Pretty sure head bolts on the Puma are torque to yield? Imagine this has implications for the possibility of tightening?

Sorry if I'm starting to sound obstructionist!

In the interests of being helpful, I'll note that I can easily achieve water temps (CWT) well north of 100 degrees if I deliberately boost up my 2.4 at low revs in sixth up a big hill. CHT are typically in the order of 10 degrees higher again when I do this.

Double checked my notes and over temp limp mode comes in at 116 degrees CWT. I saw 115 degrees CWT in the scanguage just before this happened to me last time (2 or 3 years ago pushing up the mountains in sweltering heat).

Bubbles are a worry though - but I thought there was no exhaust gas detected in the coolant? If so, perhaps you have a small leak some where that is a) responsible for your coolant loss when the system is hot and b) allowing air to be sucked back into the cooling system as it cools over night?

Forgot to ask if coolant types used have been the same? As mixing types (eg red & green dyed ones) can cause precipitation within the cooling system, sludging & resultant overheating.

Thanks Brid, the coolant is OAT and no sign of mixed colouring.

n plus one - I can't explain the negative result on the exhaust gas test and the bubbles. I do know that in my old TD5 the gas exhaust test came up negative yet the gasket was cactus so I am weary of relying on that test as gospel.

Tracking down any failure in the cooling system is finding a needle in a hay stack. As Malsgoing130 said, so many hoses, clamps and pieces in the system to be a possible cause.

Thanks so far for the comments.

MLD

Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger

Just food for thought, but is it a leak at the head gasket coolant gallery to oil gallery a possibility? Was any investigation made into this possible loss?

I've heard of head gasket failures where the engine oil becomes a brown, milkshake-like emulsion contaminated with coolant. This could be another source of coolant loss... but you'd likely notice a loss of 200ml/day into the oil pan.

I think I had a brain fart... usually the oil mixes with the water (oil in radiator) as oil pressure is higher than water pressure.
So yeah... disregard this one.

Originally Posted by MLD

Thanks Brid, the coolant is OAT and no sign of mixed colouring.

n plus one - I can't explain the negative result on the exhaust gas test and the bubbles. I do know that in my old TD5 the gas exhaust test came up negative yet the gasket was cactus so I am weary of relying on that test as gospel.

Tracking down any failure in the cooling system is finding a needle in a hay stack. As Malsgoing130 said, so many hoses, clamps and pieces in the system to be a possible cause.

Thanks so far for the comments.

MLD

Hi MLD,
Here's my sad story. My 2.4 puma developed similar symptoms last year, initially just coolant smell in the engine bay and intermittent power loss. Later after having a stuck to close thermostat, it started to experience
1. coolant leaking through heater control valve(dripping into the sponge sealing air-con), 2. pressurised top hose,
3. coolant pushed out of the expansion tank cap,
4. no hot air in the cabin even when I turn the dial to the max, etc.

In the first everyone said this could be a blown gasket or cracked head. But mine turned out to be the worst scenario I could ever expect. An LR indie here in Melbourne pulled the engine head off last month and found a small water mark in the 4th cylinder bore. Then the head was tested, nothing wrong with it; the gasket was visually inspected, no obvious problem either. Now the indie suggests the engine block could be the culprit, my options are
1. make a bet, just put a new gasket in, it may resolve the problem.
2. get the engine block tested, which costs a few grand.
3. put a new engine in, 12 grand for a new LR engine plus labour, 10 grand for a new Ford engine plus labour.

Pretty tough call for me. If option 1 doesn't resolve the problem, I have to turn to option 2 or 3, wasting the money for installing a new gasket.
Option 2 is not recommended by the indie and another transit specialist, both said I could end up wasting the money for labour and engine block test but still requiring a new engine.
Option 3 is a big bite, I prefer to have a ford engine, but no sure what mods LR has done to make it suitable for 4wd.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4yyynmjhf...6.jpg'dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fbjl4j1kqu...9.jpg'dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsz4oilobz...9.jpg'dl=0

Option 1 it is then!

Edit: did you see my earlier comment re a new complete donk on Fleabay?

Originally Posted by labrado

Hi MLD,
Here's my sad story. My 2.4 puma developed similar symptoms last year, initially just coolant smell in the engine bay and intermittent power loss. Later after having a stuck to close thermostat, it started to experience
1. coolant leaking through heater control valve(dripping into the sponge sealing air-con), 2. pressurised top hose,
3. coolant pushed out of the expansion tank cap,
4. no hot air in the cabin even when I turn the dial to the max, etc.

In the first everyone said this could be a blown gasket or cracked head. But mine turned out to be the worst scenario I could ever expect. An LR indie here in Melbourne pulled the engine head off last month and found a small water mark in the 4th cylinder bore. Then the head was tested, nothing wrong with it; the gasket was visually inspected, no obvious problem either. Now the indie suggests the engine block could be the culprit, my options are
1. make a bet, just put a new gasket in, it may resolve the problem.
2. get the engine block tested, which costs a few grand.
3. put a new engine in, 12 grand for a new LR engine plus labour, 10 grand for a new Ford engine plus labour.

Pretty tough call for me. If option 1 doesn't resolve the problem, I have to turn to option 2 or 3, wasting the money for installing a new gasket.
Option 2 is not recommended by the indie and another transit specialist, both said I could end up wasting the money for labour and engine block test but still requiring a new engine.
Option 3 is a big bite, I prefer to have a ford engine, but no sure what mods LR has done to make it suitable for 4wd.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4yyynmjhf...6.jpg'dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fbjl4j1kqu...9.jpg'dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsz4oilobz...9.jpg'dl=0

That looks like electrolysis has eaten through the liner on number 4. Or it was a defective casting from new and was very thin there.

Labrado, thanks for ramping up my fear level. FWIW i empathise with your predicament.

On Saturday i'll go over every suggestion (might hold off putting a socket to the head bolts until i talk to my mechanic). I'll replace the thermostat this weekend. The cost of coolant is less than a new head.

AFAIK LR modified the oil galleries and oil delivery to suit operating at the 35 deg side angle and some other mods to be fit for purpose. Exactly what i am not sure.

For 12K plus labour the TDV6 transplant is attractive. You can buy a wrecked long engine with accessories for about 7k from a Territory, i'm sure you could negotiate the ECU and wiring loom for a bit more or use the Bell Auto ECU. The gearbox mating would be an interesting challenge. Not sure how flexible the 15% capacity increase rule is in NSW. That would rule out the Ford Ranger engine if it's strictly applied.

MLD