Thread: 300tdi vs a td5?

Originally Posted by manic

So if you find a good LHD TDI don't rule it out as not being powerful enough to cruise highways at the speed limit - it can. A slight fuel pump tweak on the TDI will see it cruise alongside a factory tuned TD5. Both these motors will fall off 80mph on a steep incline. If you want to storm up steep hills in a Defender a tuned up TD5 can leave the TDI for dust, but it will still sound like it is being absolutely thrashed!

This is good information, Manic -- thanks. I live near the Rockies, so some hill/mountain work will be a must. Also, many of our trips are down south (which usually involves crossing the Great Divide once or twice). Never having driven a 300TDI, I am not certain how much a mountain would kill it (especially if I put on a new IC). I am not averse to a RHD -- but it would seriously hurt the resale value if I ever came to sell!

Originally Posted by manic

A large IC certainly does make a difference, it allows you to up the fuel delivery without increasing EGT. If you do end up with a TDI, a full IC and fuel tweak can get you 35% more power ( up to 160BHP according to allisport). I doubt you would push it up to those figures in the real world, but a modest fuel adjustment to suit the IC could reliably produce more than a 122bhp TD5. The 300tdi behind the autobox was dialled up to 122BHP at the factory with a stock IC.
Defender 300 Tdi Full Size Intercooler - AlliSport

Would this mod permit TD5 hill performance from a Tdi?

Originally Posted by manic

An electric fan mod might be a good idea for the cold!

This is probably a must over here -- I will probably put some sort of muffler on too. The cold is incredibly heat sapping here. This will probably involve a lot of insulation -- I have to look into what sort of insulation has the best heat properties (normally, insulation is sold for its sound properties -- which are different).

Originally Posted by manic

110kph being the highway speed limit in Canada, and with no mention of towing, I would say soundproofing, gearing and cruise control would do more to improve your highway driving pleasure in a Defender than TD5 over TDI.

Thanks for all the useful information, Manic. Silly question, but have you fitted heated seats and windshield at all? I know that there are kits out there, but I have not looked into the difficulty yet. If I go with the older Tdi, I will need to incorporate the newer luxuries (else the g/f will be most unhappy!)

Originally Posted by JoeFriend

Snow cowl for heater intake would also be a must.

How much do these restrict the air flow to the heater? Is there any way to assist the heater? I have heard about Aliweld's oversized heater matrix -- but does it do any good? I heard that the air flow to the cab was more of an issue?

Originally Posted by JoeFriend

Get AC in a defender if you want to be comfortable in 40 degree heat. And if you have it pulled apart, insulate and seal the seat box. The transfer, gearbox and exhaust bleed heat into the cabin. Great for winter, not so much in summer. I say seal the box because if I have the window or front vents open in mine I get more hot air coming in from that area. Windows closed is much better, air doesn't come up and into the cabin and make it hotter than it should be.

Both the landy's I am looking at have AC... I am just not sure if I would prefer to adopt the blower motor and try and rig it for warmth rather than cold. The heat is good here, but the cold is worse. You can always wind windows down to try and get cooler -- you cannot do anything much to get warm if you are cold.

That said, I will have to see how effective my insulation ideas are before I mess with the AC.

Originally Posted by DazzaTD5

TD5 every time, then the Isuzu then a 300tdi.....

Ha! The TD5 and Tdi is quite polarising! I have heard much support for both. I think it will come down to driving them both and the price. I have heard that the Tdi has a better chassis metal, but lack of toys worries me a bit (I know I am getting into a Defender from a L322 -- and I have had many Defenders in the past, so it is not like I don't know what they're like -- but I would have to have leccy windows, some heated stuff, and a half decent stereo at the bare minimum!

Isuzu engines are not available here -- and I am a bit of a purist when it comes to Land Rovers (I only like LR stuff on my LR!). It is a shame that the defender is not fitted with a bigger lump; I was quite surprised that they never modified the lovely inline 6 they had for diesel.

Originally Posted by DazzaTD5

and if we are talking engines in general..
all the new engines well after the top 3

Not sure what you mean by 'all the new engines well after the top 3'... Can you advise a bit further, please?

They don't restrict the intake a great deal, the wingtop vent for the heater will fill with snow if you don't get one, melt and then get sucked into the heater matrix and fan causing issues.

The big thing to help the heater is to get engine temp up to operating as quick as you can, hence the engine blanket which will restrict airflow around the engine bay.

You can always alter the airvents inside the cabin and reroute them. They are only windshield and feet as standard. Not a great deal of room to do it though! Increasing the heater matrix size might work, but I would want to increase it with extra piping to get more hot air in. Increase the thermostat as well so it stays closed longer would help a tiny bit.

Would this mod permit TD5 hill performance from a Tdi?
A healthy TDI on full IC and tweaked pump would go better than a stock TD5, but not by much. It will be a little less slow. A chipped TD5 with full IC would take it up another notch, but compared to a L322 you are still going to feel the hills.

Silly question, but have you fitted heated seats and windshield at all? I know that there are kits out there, but I have not looked into the difficulty yet. If I go with the older Tdi, I will need to incorporate the newer luxuries (else the g/f will be most unhappy!)
I have not. I think heated seats/screen only found their way into the TDCI defenders, so TDI or TD5 you would have to do the mods. If you go for the webasto pre-heater the windows and seats will get hot air blown on them before you even get in, and your engine will never have a cold start. I find heated seats are good for immediate heat whilst the cars interior warms up, after that they are unnecessary - so if you have a pre-heater you may not need them.

Originally Posted by shedlock2000

Ha! The TD5 and Tdi is quite polarising! I have heard much support for both. I think it will come down to driving them both and the price. I have heard that the Tdi has a better chassis metal, but lack of toys worries me a bit (I know I am getting into a Defender from a L322 -- and I have had many Defenders in the past, so it is not like I don't know what they're like -- but I would have to have leccy windows, some heated stuff, and a half decent stereo at the bare minimum!
Isuzu engines are not available here -- and I am a bit of a purist when it comes to Land Rovers (I only like LR stuff on my LR!). It is a shame that the defender is not fitted with a bigger lump; I was quite surprised that they never modified the lovely inline 6 they had for diesel.
Not sure what you mean by 'all the new engines well after the top 3'... Can you advise a bit further, please?

I'm pretty sure Dazza meant that his top 3 in order were td5, then isuzu then tdi and the newer engines are well down the list, he works on them for a living as do I , and I agree with that order.
The td5 is a great engine, and if tweaked properly will reliably produce 200hp / 480 + nm ( my own runs higher than this and has over 330000 kilometres) it is a d2 though, which has pretty much all the stuff you say you will want to add to a defender.
Don't want to **** on your parade as a purist but the lovely inline 6 diesel you describe is a BMW engine

Originally Posted by discorevy

...top 3 in order were td5, then isuzu then tdi and the newer engines are well down the list, he works on them for a living as do I , and I agree with that order....

Depends on how you assess these engines. We are in the Defender section of the forum so we have to look at how suitable these engines are for the vehicle. The Isuzu is something like 350kg of bullet proof steel, its the nosiest engine out of the bunch, not even that powerful for its size and it near enough puts the front axle over its limits. Yet people flag it as one of the best to sit in a defender engine bay - why? Well, because it is simple and reliable. That is exactly what you would expect in a Series/Defender. The TDI has proved to be a reliable motor, has the same simplicity, yet lighter on the axle, and not quite so rattly. But the Isuzu is such a winner because it is uncompromisingly brutal in its simplicity and can tow 3 ton through the Aussie outback for days on end without a sweat. At least that's what I am told!

The Series/Defender would not have been so revered if it wasn't a ridiculously simple tin of nuts and bolts. Times have changed though, and the Defender can no longer exist in that state. The TD5 is a reliable, more modern, more capable engine than the ISUZU/TDI, but it introduced bits that no one was asking for, like an ECU and electric in tank fuel pump. Whilst the TDI was built with the military and hostile environments in mind, the TD5 wavered to satisfy more stringent European standards. This didn't go notice by the British military who declined the TD5 and demanded the TDI continue to power its vehicles.

So for me the best engines to ever fit in with what the Defender was built to do goes TDI -> TD5 -> Isuzu -> TDCI. Isuzu behind the TDI/TD5 only because it is not a proper land rover engine (Australia only), and TDCI last because even though it is the best engine/gearbox combo to drive, it would simply **** itself if it ever caught a whiff of bad fuel.

Originally Posted by manic

This didn't go notice by the British military who declined the TD5 and demanded the TDI continue to power its vehicles.

Only because the TD5 was electronically too 'noisy' for military use, and the Land Rover UK couldn't resolve it.

I'm the early 2000's the ADF looked at repowering the Perenties with the TD5, and LRA with a very small team headed by a mate of mine did it.
Then Ford bought Land Rover and canned military vehicles....