Defenders on "Car Sales."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew86

If that person is the only person in the market for a Defender, it does. You can't sell it for anything, to anyone, a bit like the Lada Niva by good friend had back in the 90's. Worth, in this case, being the value of the asset if it were converted to cash.

Obviously the market for Defenders is much bigger than one person, but the same principle applies. If none of those people are willing to pay $100k then it isn't worth $100k.

---

I still disagree in principle. But it comes down to semantics I guess. You want to define "worth" as whatever someone is willing to pay for it. I define worth differently.

Lets say someone might be willing to pay $1000k for a Defender. Would you say as I'd say, "I don't think its worth that"? (i.e. not worth what what someone is willing to pay for it).
If someone offered me $1M for my DCPU. And I took it. I'd be saying, "I got far more for it than what its worth".

These example pretty well illustrate why I don't equate/define "worth" as being the price someone might pay for something.

Worth is subjective, cost is not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeanoH

Don't really know what you're getting at here ? The Oka is basically trouble free from a design and build viewpoint though the first production models needed a bit of tweaking here and there, no different to any other vehicle really.




Alas, no more since about 5 years ago, but hold their prices well if properly maintained, very similar to the Defender really in a lot of ways.

A good choice for a heavy duty touring vehicle especially as a family tourer/camper. For the same price as a Defender you get a lot of Oka. In the right application better value for money IMO.

Deano :)

ps. Deano is biased as he owns an Oka and has owned two (older) Defenders :)

---

Cheers Deano, good to hear your experience with Okas is good. I've heard of many breakdowns, trouble getting parts etc. but no more than any other brand though. So yes might be a good alternative to Defender 👍 ...how's the fuel consumption and spare parts etc in your experience?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeros

Cheers Deano, good to hear your experience with Okas is good. I've heard of many breakdowns, trouble getting parts etc. but no more than any other brand though. So yes might be a good alternative to Defender 👍 ...how's the fuel consumption and spare parts etc in your experience?

---

Oka's break down just like anything else, generally from poor/neglected maintenance from my observations. Properly maintained though they are very reliable and best of all simple. No electronic crap to ruin your day/holiday :) and very easy to diagnose/fix should something play up. They're just like a large Series/Defender really, under powered with a 4 cyl Perkins 110 BHP old style diesel with the same Bosch IP as the Tdi, a rock solid Spicer/Turner 5 spd. all synchro gearbox, TC can be either a NP205 or Rockwell or Vickers HD150 (because it weighs 150 Kg :o) in later models, 4 wheel disc brakes, part time 4WD nothing special but rock solid :).

Spare parts availability is excellent as the whole vehicle uses generic off the shelf parts, it's actually easier to source parts than most vehicles because of this ie. Perkins engine is generic as :), gearbox's don't break anyway and NOS are still available anyway, drive train is all generic Dana/Spicer stuff used in many US 4WD's and so on.

Great for touring, the very long leaf spring/aeon rubber/dual shocker suspension is the best I've experienced on any off road vehicle. Not fancy but very, very effective especially on serious corrugations. Touring fuel consumption is around 16-17 litres/100 Km and doesn't change much unless you hit lots of sand or carry too much weight which is always a temptation with such a large vehicle.

Still, nothing wrong with the Defender, I've owned two and they're great. The Oka is really a Defender on steroids :) can't wait to see the 'new' Defender but can't really see it being anything other than a glorified SUV, but I live in hope :)

Deano :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeanoH

Oka's break down just like anything else, generally from poor/neglected maintenance from my observations. Properly maintained though they are very reliable and best of all simple. No electronic crap to ruin your day/holiday :) and very easy to diagnose/fix should something play up. They're just like a large Series/Defender really, under powered with a 4 cyl Perkins 110 BHP old style diesel with the same Bosch IP as the Tdi, a rock solid Spicer/Turner 5 spd. all synchro gearbox, TC can be either a NP205 or Rockwell or Vickers HD150 (because it weighs 150 Kg :o) in later models, 4 wheel disc brakes, part time 4WD nothing special but rock solid :).

Spare parts availability is excellent as the whole vehicle uses generic off the shelf parts, it's actually easier to source parts than most vehicles because of this ie. Perkins engine is generic as :), gearbox's don't break anyway and NOS are still available anyway, drive train is all generic Dana/Spicer stuff used in many US 4WD's and so on.

Great for touring, the very long leaf spring/aeon rubber/dual shocker suspension is the best I've experienced on any off road vehicle. Not fancy but very, very effective especially on serious corrugations. Touring fuel consumption is around 16-17 litres/100 Km and doesn't change much unless you hit lots of sand or carry too much weight which is always a temptation with such a large vehicle.

Still, nothing wrong with the Defender, I've owned two and they're great. The Oka is really a Defender on steroids :) can't wait to see the 'new' Defender but can't really see it being anything other than a glorified SUV, but I live in hope :)

Deano :)

---

Hey man, thanks for your great reply. OKA's sound awesome. The stories I've heard must have ben about poorly maintained vehicles.

Intriguing that spares are so easy to source, do you have a goto online supplier? / mechanic?

Fuel consumption better than a land cruiser too. Although I do like my 10-11l / km!

What's the best year model to buy do you reckon?

I think the Defender is certainly heavy duty. How many vehicles can be driven out of the showroom and set off around the world without needing modifications?
As for prices, they are worth what people will pay, so obviously $55,000 was too cheap, but the supply was limited by the factory and their long history meant they were still profitable for LR at 20,000 a year, whereas LR says the new one will have to sell four times that number to be profitable.
As I said to my Hilux-owning son the other day, when was the last time a Hilux appreciated in value like a Defender?

What is "heavy duty"?

Maybe you can drive a defender out of a show room and travel around the world but you may want to at the very minimal, replace the turbo hose, drive flange maybe also axles. Diffs may explore because of poor setup (not enough back lash) in factory. Also may be worth checking the adapter shaft (not greased). And finally you may be thinking of a remap from day 1 because we all know how a stock tdci defender drives......
And somewhere down the track, the clutch may **** itself and it may do it multiple times

By the time the defender is considered "reliable" or maybe "heavy duty", most of the factory stuffs are replaced

Some owners manage to keep the moral high and are happy to pay for such "maintenance"( towed) or "preventive maintenance (not towed) ; some do not survive, they give up so they sell

Some learn to drive the defender with "mechanical sympathy"...

I think I will consider selling the truck if clutch failed again within another 40k kms...

http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0001-...4-km-indicated

Worth is emotive... driven by heart than head.

Humans inherent want/need to have something that only a limited number was produced is testimony to the fact we are mostly foolish. [emoji41][emoji12][emoji106]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by martnH

What is "heavy duty"?

Maybe you can drive a defender out of a show room and travel around the world but you may want to at the very minimal, replace the turbo hose, drive flange maybe also axles. Diffs may explore because of poor setup (not enough back lash) in factory. Also may be worth checking the adapter shaft (not greased). And finally you may be thinking of a remap from day 1 because we all know how a stock tdci defender drives......
And somewhere down the track, the clutch may **** itself and it may do it multiple times

By the time the defender is considered "reliable" or maybe "heavy duty", most of the factory stuffs are replaced

Some owners manage to keep the moral high and are happy to pay for such "maintenance"( towed) or "preventive maintenance (not towed) ; some do not survive, they give up so they sell

Some learn to drive the defender with "mechanical sympathy"...

I think I will consider selling the truck if clutch failed again within another 40k kms...

---

I know someone who'll take your Defender off your hands. No big deal.

My turbo hose hose is no prob, made sure I tightened the clamp when I bought it. I've replaced drive flanges $50. Replaced adapter shaft under warranty as a precaution when I had an oil leak fixed.

So... What will you buy?

Interesting info on Tojo 70...
Toyota 70 Series Landcruiser Fixes & Solutions.
Gearbox/engine revs too high at 100km/hr, alternator located too low down, even the wheel track is still a problem! I've also seen 70 series clutches, diffs, gearboxes, engine mounts break within 100,000km. They have horse and cart springs, they rust more easily, they're noisier, they use twice as much fuel, they cost more to buy and maintain.

OKA's sound great, but more expensive, use more fuel. A few basic Defender mods looks like a bargain to me.

What else is there! A hummer?