The "New" Defender, ...Your Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

Where do you guys get off on speaking for someone else as the basis for your argument? Attempting to put words in some else's mouth just sounds silly and a bit desperate. You're very welcome to disagree, but stick to your own points rather than misrepresenting mine.

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Huh?,how many different threads have you joined about the possible Defender replacement and contributed nothing but criticism against Land Rover Management about not making the replacement vehicle basic even though I,along with many others on here have pointed out that it cannot be that way because the Vehicle must comply to modern vehicle safety,emissions and manufacturing requirements.You have not posted one positive thing about the Defender replacement in any of the discussions you have joined even though you have no idea what the Defender replacement will be even after Land Rover themselves pushed the replacement vehicle back another two years after they released a statement saying they weren't happy with what they currently designed,a vehicle based on the T5 platform and canned the lot and went back to the drawing board.My responses to you started out being based on facts as I saw them but changed once I released many replies ago your position of negativity was set in stone. Pat

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

No money? Oh my heart goes out. Poor Land Rover. ...Talk about unicorns.

I don't buy it. There's been no shortage of money to develop every other model.

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Were do you think Land Rovers money comes from,the current Defender?. Pat

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

No money? Oh my heart goes out. Poor Land Rover. ...Talk about unicorns.

I don't buy it. There's been no shortage of money to develop every other model.

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Looking at it with a pure business head, why would they splash much cash on a new Defender? JLR sold nearly half a million vehicles in 2014, of which a quarter were Evoques, and only 17000 or so were Defenders.
In 2015, when the whole "end of the world is nigh, they aren't making Defenders any more" hype started, they sold 23000 Defenders out of their 487000 total vehicles. They are handbuilt, on a production line with very low levels of automation, nailed together by Sam and Kevin in the deepest, darkest recesses of the Solihull factory. And Sam and Kevin's tea and biscuit bill is not to be sneezed at.

If it typically costs about $1billion to develop a new vehicle, they are going to have the added cost (assuming they have visions of making it a volume seller, and trying to compete with the current commercial and Ute type market) of properly setting up a factory to make them as well. Or even building them in one of the two new premises they are constructing currently.

So cash wise, they want another Evoque. Their success with the new models is the reason why they can now afford to take a look at the Defender.

And to take a look at JLR's sales volumes, see Retail volumes reporting | Jaguar Land Rover Corporate Website

Firstly, I'm not going to be blindly positive about a mythical new Defender when there is ZERO evidence from JLR pointing to its reality, and on the contrary there is an indisputable track record of severe lack of development of Defender and a history of botched promises and attempts.

Secondly, the reason Defender sales have been so low is precisely due to the lack of Defender re-development over 20 years.

How they do it is one thing. Whether they actually do it is another.

JLR should be ashamed of the lack of attention and low priority placed on their most iconic vehicle over decades...and I don't see any evidence of anything changing (except of it getting worse with end of production). I do however see massive evidence of JLR shifting to a 100% luxury vehicle business model, with zero interested in heavy duty work vehicles.

Sorry to say, but I don't think it's me following the unicorn.

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

No money? Oh my heart goes out. Poor Land Rover. ...Talk about unicorns.

I don't buy it. There's been no shortage of money to develop every other model.

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Mr Landy. If you care to read a bit of Landrover history, you will note that pretty much continually during British Leyland, BMW, Ford ownership, there has been talk of "this should've / could've" been done to Defender, which during all this time has been suffering continually decreasing sales, because of vastly increasing numbers of competition, and the fact that the Defender's BASIC CONFIGURATION made it impossible to viably modify, to "keep up" with the opposition,....even if they fitted airbags, made it emission compliant etc etc etc, the basic configuration was & is "over the hill"....it's "old school" stuff,...which is why production has ended & a "New" Defender is coming, which I say we will know something about by 2018.
The fact is, well I think anyway, there's no way "our" Defender could be kept in production, for many many reasons, including cost of production etc etc...it was at the end of "ITS" road.
Whilst I have no knowledge, nor does ANYONE else, to "criticize" any "New" Defender, I'm confident, that when it arrives, it will be an excellent vehicle, like every other recent release from JLR,....I'd rather it wasn't called a Defender, but I'm afraid it will be, but I'm sure it'll be worthy of the name.
Pickles.

Considering a major staple of heavy offroad use in the Mining game is a Prado I'd suggest it won't be hard to build something more than capable of the rough and tumble.

With airbags, AC, Integrated IPhone and Bt, a decent load rating, air suspension and a cabin that stays dust free and doesn't leak.

The Defender is, was and always has been a compromise vehicle... (Nothing wrong with that). And is the reason for the enormous range of bespoke parts born from a cottage industry.

I have cogitated upon the stance LR have taken on the Defender and believe there's no failing on their part.

It's more a case of sentimentality of the human condition to lament old designs due to familiarity or feeling invoked.

Case in point - I can not stand VN Commodores - horrible bloated things - yet they invoke much enjoyment in 16-20 somethings.
XY GT HO P3s - many a great memory - my family had one, and an RT Charger, a Datsun 1600, and FJ, an XJS Jag, a Split Window VW...
All just cars - nothing spectacular- and certainly horrendous in overall measure by modern standards. I had the opportunity to drive a Concourse GT a few years back and while I smiled I also cried - Smiled in a straight line, cried at corners, curves, parking....

Now those vehicles are all considered Iconic - and besides VW who did a modern version none of the other have, and the world has moved on to vehicles full of acronyms that are a much more rounded and overall driveable vehicle...

Back to LR - the Defender was a legacy of a companies struggle to survive. Through continual financial stress the Hand built vehicle which would end up the Defender continued.. Along with its Panel gaps, exposed rivets, offset steering position. It's a testament to the fortitude of the company that they didn't have it shut down decades before hand...

They convinced multiple owners to keep it being made, and quietly continued to produce evolutions for consideration by the boards over the years.

Almost every one of these was rejected by the public...

Conversely FoMoCo released a single model Falcon with the best headlights of any motor vehicle of the era and was a sales flop... A timely warning to designers..

LRs development of a more agricultural/ workhorse vehicle is fraught with risk... If they try to make it an all rounder they'll get hammered by traditionalists, without any modern gear they'll lose new markets.
It MUST have all the safety gear by law and to even have a chance to penetrate many work sites, and it must be capable.

One thing it can't have is a mechano construction and hope to pass any NCAP testing - a now essential rating required to get sales on volume.

We really enjoy our Defender - we really do...
It's quirks of design make it endearing.
It stands out in a crowd and garners comment from those with fond memories of an old LR in their youth.

It also gets comment ad nauseum about reliability issues, broken axles, leaks...
We smile and advise that we've never had a problem.

Given time LR will develop a new vehicle and bring it to market, it may never draw the attention of the traditional Series/Defender owner however it will likely fill a more utility based market in a very useful and impressive way.

MrLandy - for all your posts will you answer one question...

If the LR Defender continued in its current MY16 guise would you be looking to buy another in the next 5 years? (Assume your current vehicles don't have any issues etc)

Sorry for using modern technology to post these threads - Couldn't find the old 2400 modem to dial into a BBS and my Punch card system is long relegated to the land fill... [emoji48]

I remember talking to Mal Story, a long time ago when he was in business. He reckoned the Defender was weak rubbish and they should have kept building 110s and maybe early range rovers with sensible aftermarket upgrades to the drive train. I'm sure I've read that dedicated series owners thought the 110s were posh rubbish with carpet and cloth seats. Lots of people will hate a new Defender with auto, real aircon, terrain response etc.