Thread: 2012 puma - water in fuel tank

I think aftre this debacle I will invest in an extra filter too.

I've been think the of an extra filter also.
Have you guys seen Toxic's set up?
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Before investing in additional filters consider the (widely documented)problem first. Common rail diesels are significantly different to older units in that they have a very high circulation rate of fuel through the high pressure pump to cool and lubricate this pump. the flow through the inline filter is enough to ensure that some water will pass through the sedimenter in suspension and cause damage to the HP pump. The other consideration is that the flow rate of the fuel circuit is too high for a traditional filter and the restriction of the filter may overload the low pressure pump and cause starvation issues in the high pressure circuit.

There are some devices around such as water watch Responsive Engineering | water in diesel | 4wd diesel filter
that claim to have engineered a solution.

My experience with the D3 was that I didn't ever have water issues in 280,000 Km and my gut feeling is that the Defender issues are not cause by contaminated fuel from the source but is much more likely to be caused by the breather. Fixing the breather will be a priority on my 130.

Regards,
Tote

Tote,
From my looking into the fuel delivery of the tdci (and I note that there is not a huge volume of info readily available) You are onto some points in your synopsis.

Firstly, the waterwatch device is simply an additional water separator with sensor. Obviously they want the lowest restriction device to alert the driver to water collecting in the low pressure side of the fuel system.

Second, using JLR terminology their is a "high pressure pump" bolted to the engine (same in 2.2 and 2.4 tdci).
This pump contains a transfer pump, admission pressure control valve, volume control valve, pump plunger and fuel overflow valve.
The 2.2 also has a pump in the tank pushing fuel through the filter tot he high pressure pump.

Within the high pressure pump there is indeed a volume of fuel used to cool the plunger, effectively excess from the transfer pump cools the plunger body and then goes to the overflow valve. Actual fuel that will be burnt goes through the volume control valve into the plunger and out to the high pressure rail. There is no return from the high pressure rail its a one way path to compression ignition. (unless you include the safety valve in case of over pressure in the rail)

From what I can ascertain JLR decided to include the intank low pressure pump in the 2.4 to ensure that the transfer pump was better supplied with fuel (not relying on suction). I have not been able to determine the actual flow rate of the in tank pump.

The Parker (Racor) P4 filter body I have chosen has both water trap with water sensor (vital in my opinion and sadly lacking in the tdci OEM setup) but also has an integral pump. As I have a 2.4 tdci I was hesitant to add extra filtration without a pump in fear of starving the transfer pump which effectively cools the plunger.

Im not sure exactly sure where you established this info from
" the flow through the inline filter is enough to ensure that some water will pass through the sedimenter in suspension and cause damage to the HP pump."
but Racor/Parker pretty well guarantee against that happening.

I am confident I could run the P4 as sole filter/ water trap & sensor/ pump in my 2.4 but I am now thinking of running it in line with the OEM.

Anyways, ramble off!

S

Originally Posted by Tote

Before investing in additional filters consider the (widely documented)problem first. Common rail diesels are significantly different to older units in that they have a very high circulation rate of fuel through the high pressure pump to cool and lubricate this pump. the flow through the inline filter is enough to ensure that some water will pass through the sedimenter in suspension and cause damage to the HP pump. The other consideration is that the flow rate of the fuel circuit is too high for a traditional filter and the restriction of the filter may overload the low pressure pump and cause starvation issues in the high pressure circuit.

There are some devices around such as water watch Responsive Engineering | water in diesel | 4wd diesel filter
that claim to have engineered a solution.

My experience with the D3 was that I didn't ever have water issues in 280,000 Km and my gut feeling is that the Defender issues are not cause by contaminated fuel from the source but is much more likely to be caused by the breather. Fixing the breather will be a priority on my 130.

Regards,
Tote

Yep, I think the breather is the priority, to stop water getting into the fuel tank during water crossings.
After that comes the issue of whether another filter is needed.
Maintenance would be to regularly empty the original filter so it doesn't rust out.
Do you agree?

The info regarding the volume of fuel through the filter was also in the case where a large amount of water was ingested quickly and the water trap was overwhelmed before the sensor could detect it. This scenario would occur if you had a contaminated fuel source and ended up with a litre of water in the bottom of the tank. As I said above I think the problem with the Pumas is small amounts of water over a longer time period. Maybe the water gradually builds up in the water trap and people simply don't drain them. I'll be going home this afternoon and cracking mine.
My experience with the flow rates was around the D3 which does have a very high recirculation rate with the fuel. I have not researched the return rate on a Puma and it may also be lower.

Regards,
Tote

" a large amount of water was ingested quickly and the water trap was overwhelmed before the sensor could detect it."

Just be aware that the tdci fuel system does NOT have water in fuel sensor / warning.

For mine that is the single biggest thing you can do to prevent dramas such as LoveB has had. Unless you check for water in your filter every trip you could easily pickup a glut of water at fuel up or through the breather and not know it until too late.

Essentially my desire to go with the P4 was for the water sensor plus the fact that I know Racor will make a better quality filter + separator than Standyne. Adding the pump to the setup seems to make sense to me with a 2.4.

You could also just run with the waterwatch setup prior to factory filtration. You will get a bigger volume of water separation plus the all important sensor. For mine that is more important than say what Toxic did with adding an extra filter inline.

Steve

Are the Waterwatch or similar filters finer than the factory filter? If so wouldn't they have to go between the factory filter and
engine, to catch what the original filter missed?
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