2012 puma - water in fuel tank

**DazzaTD5** · 17th September 2016, 11:13 AM

Just some more info....

*Talk with any decent mechanic with experience on common rail diesels and they will tell you adding an additional fuel filter/water catch wont have any negative impact on your engine.

*Others that say otherwise have zero to very little knowledge about how a common rail diesel functions. (such as the technical/service department of a vehicle manufacturer or dealership)

*Vehicle manufacturers are always going to state along the lines of "we dont support any non factory approved modification"

*Around 80% of fuel flow delivered to a common rail engine gets returned to tank.

*Typically a one fuel filter setup on a common rail diesel will filter around the 5 micron mark, a 5 micron filter is often called a "secondary" filter. Filter that do around 10 micron or bigger are considered a "primary" filter. So if only using the one filter setup you use a "secondary" 5 micron filter.

*So if you fit a filter after the one stock filter, you need a filter that does smaller than the stock filter, say around 2 micron and ideally a water trap. If you fit a filter before the stock it needs to filter larger particulate such as round 10 microns and again ideally a water trap.

*A Defender TDCi 2.4 does not have a in tank fuel delivery pump (previous TD5 and later 2.2 do have a in tank fuel delivery pump).

*The one way breather on a Defender TDCi in just above the top of the fuel tank and are prone to either blocking and causing "venting" through the fuel lock cap OR are prone to sticking open, in both cases water ingress is possible.

*When I fit long range tanks to the Defender TDCi or do any work on the fuel tank, I route that pesky one way breather to just behind the filler cap (nice and high away from water/mud ingress hopefully).

**The basics I religiously state to customers....
*Service every 10,000kms which always includes oil, oil filter, air filter AND FUEL FILTER.

Regards
Daz

**roverrescue** · 17th September 2016, 09:01 PM

Das
In your experience can the tdci transfer pump in the high pressure pump pull through the factory plus a 2micron filter in the 2.4L variant with no in tank pump?

I wonder why JLR changed up with 2.2 and added an in tank pump?

S

**rar110** · 18th September 2016, 08:47 AM

I fitted a 2 micron Racor to the 4BD1. It was just too fine and blocked. I've gone back to the Lucas separator as great for taking out most of the water and larger particles. I'll refit the racor down stream as a good filter unit.

**Toxic_Avenger** · 18th September 2016, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by rar110

I fitted a 2 micron Racor to the 4BD1. It was just too fine and blocked. I've gone back to the Lucas separator as great for taking out most of the water and larger particles. I'll refit the racor down stream as a good filter unit.

Interesting.
Was the 2um filter as a primary or secondary filter?
If used solely as a primary filter on an older vehicle with some accumulated contamination in the tank (this kind of thing happens), then I'd think the lifespan would be reduced significantly.

**DazzaTD5** · 18th September 2016, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by rar110

I fitted a 2 micron Racor to the 4BD1. It was just too fine and blocked. I've gone back to the Lucas separator as great for taking out most of the water and larger particles. I'll refit the racor down stream as a good filter unit.

I'm sure I dont need to say this, but if its blocking it means its doing its job.

Also any Isuzu engine of the era of the 4BD1 will just about run on anything, within reason of course, you still have an injector pump with fine tolerances.

Common rail diesel engines perform awesome and overall are extremely reliable.....

But nothing to me is a more perfect remote travel vehicle than a Isuzu powered 110. When there is a Zombie apocalypse

I want to be driving a Isuzu powered Land Rover 110

Regards
Daz

**DazzaTD5** · 18th September 2016, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by roverrescue

Das
In your experience can the tdci transfer pump in the high pressure pump pull through the factory plus a 2micron filter in the 2.4L variant with no in tank pump?

I wonder why JLR changed up with 2.2 and added an in tank pump?

S

*I'm sure plenty here have done it to a 2.4lt.
*We used to fit secondary 2 micron filters to hiluxs up north, again no ill effects except saving a very expensive high pressure fuel pump.

-----
Just to clarify so people know as some parts have numerous names depending on reference to new or old tech, manufacturer etc...

*In tank fuel pump = fuel pump, transfer pump (common ref to a lot of diesel engines)
*Lift pump = lift pump, low pressure pump (common rail diesels this is fitted or is part of the high pressure pump.
*High pressure pump = HPFP, some times WRONGLY called an injector pump (this is the pump that pressurises the "common rail" that the injectors feed off)
*Injector pump = this is is reference to older NON common rail diesel engines.

-----
Ref why JLR went back to a in tank fuel supply pump on the 2.2lt....
*Maybe from what I suspect is actually some R & D being done to a high standard, they realised that its a pretty crap idea and makes changing fuel filters in the bush a bit harder.

*Its prolly the same in factory R & D that changed the last of the Defender models to a one piece rear axle and drive flange and also the traction control off button, one piece lower door seals, the fuel tank one way breather fitted to just behind the filler cap, slightly revised rear side door stays, I think there are a few other tiny mods that have happened along the way.....

but hey thats only IMHO...

Regards
Daz

**DazzaTD5** · 18th September 2016, 11:49 AM

And if you dont think Jaguar Land Rover dont know there is an issue with the breather becoming blocked or sticking open......

The pic is of a MY 2016 plated Defender which clearly shows a "revised breather location"

Regards
Daz

**Beery** · 18th September 2016, 12:00 PM

For a moment there I thought they'd plumbed it into the filler neck breather and changed to a vented fuel cap.

**roverrescue** · 18th September 2016, 08:57 PM

Thanks Daz
All sounds good. I'm just trying to work out whether to run the P4 pump constantly or just have it on a seitch for priming duties

Talking terminology to keep this JLR specific
In the JLR workshop manual the transfer pump is the lower pressure pump that primes the plunger (high pressure pump)
Both these are at the block - the high pressure fuel pump

The 2.2 in tank pump is just a fuel pump

Steve

**DazzaTD5** · 20th September 2016, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by roverrescue

Thanks Daz
All sounds good. I'm just trying to work out whether to run the P4 pump constantly or just have it on a seitch for priming duties

Talking terminology to keep this JLR specific
In the JLR workshop manual the transfer pump is the lower pressure pump that primes the plunger (high pressure pump)
Both these are at the block - the high pressure fuel pump

The 2.2 in tank pump is just a fuel pump

Steve

If its a 2.4 with no "fuel pump" (the one in the tank) then running it all the time is prolly going to be fine... BUT it does need to be wired correctly so if the vehicle is in an accident the pump will turn off even with the ignition being on.

Now... I've not honestly looked at a 2.4 close enough to see if there is the circuit for a pump and also the inertia switch, which is what is going to turn the pump off in a bingle...

Regards
Daz

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