Thread: Puma Drive Flanges

Originally Posted by DazzaTD5

RE standard axles / drive flanges
*The part about the axles / drive flanges being soft because they are sacrificial is yet another uneducated dealer spin bull****
*Defender TDCi (puma) 2007 onwards, the axles / drive flanges were not only poor quality, but also a poor spline fit or mis-match.
*ALL previous model Defenders were of a far greater hardness, lasted typically the life of the vehicle YET would still break (as in, still sacrificial) when abused.
*As mentioned, its very hit and miss if it gets done under warranty, Ive had plenty of customers where the dealer here wouldnt replace as JLR had said they hadnt failed.
*There is no need to use any type of special grease, wheel bearing grease is more than enough. The purpose of grease (or oil) is merely to prevent the oxygen from coming into contact with the fretted material, thus causing oxides, the oxides being harder than the parent material will then wear away the splines more.
*The poor quality in hardness I think has well and truely already been revealed, I have hardness tested at least a dozen sets of standard axles drive flanges removed from Defender TDCi (puma) models and ALL are well softer than the previous model Defender / 110 models

This is nothing new to the Defender TDCi (puma) model and has been well covered in greater depth here on AULRO

two videos, one at 10K, the other at 30K
Land Rover Defender TDCi (puma) rear axle & drive flange free play at 10,000km - YouTube
Land Rover Defender TDCi rear axle & drive flange free play at 30,000kms - YouTube

Regards
Daz

P.S As previously mentioned the fronts (be that Disco 1, Defender) dont suffer the same fretting wear. the rears on a Disco 1 are one piece.

Thanks for the info Daz, very informative. I am glad that this forum exists.
I have read bits and pieces about the flanges and hardness etc, but was unsure if the very last ones were any different to the earlier Pumas, especially given the incremental assembly and engineering changes over the Puma's life. You've even done hardness tests, which sure beats hearsay! Least this issue is now put to rest concisely. As I said, thankfully I didn't have to pay a cent or a moment of my time redoing things because of warranty. If they go in the future, then I'll replace with the HD items. It will be interesting to see how long they go.

Can I ask about the merits of changing both HD flanges and axles or just flanges as I notice on eBay there are plenty of flanges for around $100 a pair, but add HD axles and the asking prices rise a lot.
Would doing just the flanges be enough for normal usage?

The reason you need to change both the flanges and axles is because people just change the OEM flanges under warranty which doesn't fix the problem,eventually the constant movement causes the axle splines to wear also so both need replacing.Just spending the $100 on preventative maintenance saves many hundreds in repairs later.

Can't argue with the technical advantage of the HD drive flanges, but personally I haaaaate the look of them.
Is there any known manufacturer that makes OEM identical flanges but in a harder steel?

Originally Posted by Beery

Can't argue with the technical advantage of the HD drive flanges, but personally I haaaaate the look of them.
Is there any known manufacturer that makes OEM identical flanges but in a harder steel?

No because the HD ones are machined and broached from bar stock vs genuine ones are cast and broached.

Originally Posted by Beery

Can't argue with the technical advantage of the HD drive flanges, but personally I haaaaate the look of them.
Is there any known manufacturer that makes OEM identical flanges but in a harder steel?

I've heard that when fitted with these HD flanges, the standard centre cap cannot be fitted with Defender Dual Finish alloys,....Is this correct?
Pickles.

Originally Posted by rick130

No because the HD ones are machined and broached from bar stock vs genuine ones are cast and broached.

I was under the impression that standard cast drive flanges from 20-30 years ago were a fair bit harder than the recent ones.

Darren (DazzaTd5) did my axles and I believe he lightly machines the HTE drive flanges so the end caps will still fit. Doesn't take much machining apparently, more of a skim with a couple of mm coming off.
No doubt he'll say what he does soon.
AlanH.