Thread: TDI Vs TD5 Vs PUMA

Originally Posted by djam1

Pat sorry I don't agree with you on this one I have a 300 tdi and a td5 here the 300 tdi has been tuned to its max and its not within a bulls roar of the TD5.
The TD5 is an exceptional engine if maintained properly and you don't wait for things to go wrong before sorting known weaknesses.
Not sure why you think the TD5 cant do over 500000 km there are plenty of examples of this
They do have their issues but once sorted they are fine
The TD5 I have here has a VNT all the fruit and some very nice tuning done by Jose and it feels like it has twice the power of the 300tdi.

In respect to the original post intent
I like a well sorted TD5 the 300 tdi I am not overly impressed with but they are honest the Puma I wont say much I haven't owned one but I don't like what I see
The one thing the Puma does have in its favor is a lower first gear but the poor build/ component quality and short term engine rules it out.
Not that long ago I looked at changing to a Puma but was given good advice by people in the know not to go there.
Everyone goes on as to how the 300tdi and TD5 AC is crap I lived in the Pilbara for 8 years and found the air-conditioning to be acceptable but I never sat in the back seats.

Runs for cover

No need to run for over...just tell us more about why Pumas are no good in your opinion...? What does short term engine mean?

"The one thing the Puma does have in its favor is a lower first gear but the poor build/ component quality and short term engine rules it out."

A opinion derived from third party sources through the grape vine. A bit like my opinion of every td5 blowing and warping the head or how unreliable the r380 box is......or......ill just leave it there.

See my point?

Originally Posted by Zeros

No need to run for over...just tell us more about why Pumas are no good in your opinion...? What does short term engine mean?

As stated I don't own a Puma and wish no malice toward those that do sometimes the Puma crowd do go a bit overboard on how wonderful they are.
I am sure I don't need to explain the build quality issues regarding the Puma with its cheaply manufactured components that seem to abound.
My comment about the short term engine refer to what I see on Transit and other forums around the world that speak of the issues the engines have.
Is it any different than a TD5? maybe not once they are sorted they are probably fine.

Before anyone comes on and tells me how someone in a Transit has done a million km with a Puma engine and how wonderful it has been
The old Ford Falcon taxis use to do eight hundred thousand km but how many privately owned Falcons did that??
Not many because the taxis are always hot as is a delivery vehicle once it comes to private vehicle ownership these massive mileages without issues are rare.
The Pumas that i read of in the UK seem to be finished by the 500000 km mark (as are the unsorted TD5s I am sure)

I spend a bit of time in the TRS wrecking yard and the differences between the models really is not that marked once you get underneath the plastic bits. (the build quality certainly hasn't improved for the better)

My original post was attempting to have a little jab at Pat as I think the thread is getting a little unbalanced for anyone who was looking at buying a Defender and they knew nothing.

I intend to keep my Land Rovers for about 30 years my last one was 31 when I got rid of it something that concerns me is the wiring looms in both the TD5 and the Puma what will they be like in 25 years time i know my stage 1 was getting pretty hard and inflexible in the wiring loom this isnt a great concern with the blinkers and brake lights but will be with ABS and ECUs etc.

Sorry Pat have been holding my tongue for a few weeks lol

Lets face it guys we have all been engineering the crap out of our Land Rovers for years once this is done they are fine probably doesn't matter which model.

Said by the man who above says allow $15k to get rid of the "component quality" issues.

Originally Posted by 1nando

"The one thing the Puma does have in its favor is a lower first gear but the poor build/ component quality and short term engine rules it out."

A opinion derived from third party sources through the grape vine. A bit like my opinion of every td5 blowing and warping the head or how unreliable the r380 box is......or......ill just leave it there.

See my point?

Originally Posted by djam1

As stated I don't own a Puma and wish no malice toward those that do sometimes the Puma crowd do go a bit overboard on how wonderful they are.
I am sure I don't need to explain the build quality issues regarding the Puma with its cheaply manufactured components that seem to abound.
My comment about the short term engine refer to what I see on Transit and other forums around the world that speak of the issues the engines have.
Is it any different than a TD5? maybe not once they are sorted they are probably fine.

Before anyone comes on and tells me how someone in a Transit has done a million km with a Puma engine and how wonderful it has been
The old Ford Falcon taxis use to do eight hundred thousand km but how many privately owned Falcons did that??
Not many because the taxis are always hot as is a delivery vehicle once it comes to private vehicle ownership these massive mileages without issues are rare.
The Pumas that i read of in the UK seem to be finished by the 500000 km mark (as is the unsorted TD5s I am sure)

I spend a bit of time in the TRS wrecking yard and the differences between the models really is not that marked once you get underneath the plastic bits. (the build quality certainly hasn't improved for the better)

My original post was attempting to have a little jab at Pat as I think the thread is getting a little unbalanced for anyone who was looking at buying a Defender and they knew nothing.

I intend to keep my Land Rovers for about 30 years my last one was 31 when I got rid of it something that concerns me is the wiring looms in both the TD5 and the Puma what will they be like in 25 years time i know my stage 1 was getting pretty hard and inflexible in the wiring loom this isnt a great concern with the blinkers and brake lights but will be with ABS and ECUs etc.

Sorry Pat have been holding my tongue for a few weeks lol

Your comparing a td5 engine that was only used in small numbers in one vehicle to a engine that is in a few different vehicles with more than likely 500000 plus units world wide. You read 1, 2 maybe 3 reports of an engine failure and thats enough to rubbish an engine. Really?
If i were to make an educated guess it would be that statistically the failure rate would be higher on td5s than the puma. If the failure rate was what your claiming ford would have changed the engine a long time ago. Yet its been used for years and for many different applications.

The early pumas had issues, agreed. Post 2012 2.2 pumas are the most reliable of the lot. The mt82 output shaft, clutch and flanges are the most common issues it seems. All easy fixes.

Originally Posted by djam1

Said by the man who above says allow $15k to get rid of the "component quality" issues.

Wow....i built it for a purpose. Maybe your idea off road is different to mine. Id bet that your standard defender would not go 50% of the places mine does and be able to drive home. To be honest it became a domino effect; front locker....may as well do cvs and axles. Rear locker; may as well to axles and pegg it. Mt82 ouput shaft; may as well to an ashcroft atb.

Some Puma driveline components are clearly weaker and may need to be replaced, by all accounts: transfer case centre, clutch and greasing of output shaft, which is disappointing.

However many aspects of Pumas are better including NVH levels, ABS, Traction Control, door seals, aircon, seats.

I've not read of any real issues on this site re Puma engine or electrics / ECU. (All manufacturers have a percentage of faults in all components). But are there any endemic engine or electrical faults with Pumas?

Originally Posted by djam1

.... I have a 300 tdi and a td5 here the 300 tdi has been tuned to its max and its not within a bulls roar of the TD5. ....

No doubt, a TD5 can be turned up way beyond the TDI.

What have you done to tune your 300tdi to the max?