I think I just saw the new defender

There are excellent reasons for a pure electric 4wd, the only counter arguments are battery capacity and cost.

Neither are fundamental issues, although it may be decades before they cease to be issues. Certainly, there is a fundamental issue with long distance touring away from recharging facilities, but this only involves a tiny fraction of 4wds, and it is possible that eventually additional battery capacity may be as easy as a couple of jerricans!

At the current state of development, though, cost and range remain major issues for electric 4wds, but goingbush's project shows that it is getting to be within cooee of practicality.

When the new wave of batteries come in that recharge within a fraction of the time of the current crop and where you could carry a small petrol powered alternator and solar panels I would be in. For now the tech just isnt tbere for a big country like Aus without charging facilities out west, up north or just about anywhere and with the tyranny of distance. For now it's just not a feasible option for those that use their 4wd for what it's designed for. Cheers

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Originally Posted by ozscott

<snip> use their 4wd for what it's designed for. Cheers

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And there you have it .

I say they are rarely used for what they were designed for . Mine was designed to be pushed out of the back of a C130 or slung under a helicopter but Ive never done that with it .

80% of owners of NEW 4x4's never take them off bitumen , and most of those only ever do commutes / trips to shops / school / soccer etc .

Just driving an Electric 4x4 around for the last 6 months has convinced me I'll never buy another ICE car again.

And in a 4x4 , Electric is a perfect match, Can run on any angle - even upside down , can run underwater , can run in bushfire smoke - (don't need oxygen to breathe ). so many advantages but from a pure 4x4 viewpoint 100% torque from zero RPM is the big winner . Not even touching on efficiency or emissions , zero maintenance aspect of it.

Sure Range Anxiety is real but no more so than in your in a petrol car running low on petrol .

For those that mostly do long distance remote touring in your 4x4 , sure EV are not there yet. but wont be long. Hybrid are not the answer but think "turbine range extender " .

My Gawd, two oldies come out if the woodwork for this thread - Barney and Phoenix. I haven't seen their usernames pop up in years! Welcome back Matt and Richard! [bigsmile]

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Originally Posted by goingbush

And there you have it .

I say they are rarely used for what they were designed for . Mine was designed to be pushed out of the back of a C130 or slung under a helicopter but Ive never done that with it .

80% of owners of NEW 4x4's never take them off bitumen , and most of those only ever do commutes / trips to shops / school / soccer etc .

Just driving an Electric 4x4 around for the last 6 months has convinced me I'll never buy another ICE car again.

And in a 4x4 , Electric is a perfect match, Can run on any angle - even upside down , can run underwater , can run in bushfire smoke - (don't need oxygen to breathe ). so many advantages but from a pure 4x4 viewpoint 100% torque from zero RPM is the big winner . Not even touching on efficiency or emissions , zero maintenance aspect of it.

Sure Range Anxiety is real but no more so than in your in a petrol car running low on petrol .

For those that mostly do long distance remote touring in your 4x4 , sure EV are not there yet. but wont be long. Hybrid are not the answer but think "turbine range extender " .

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Yep for sure but most people on this site do go Bush and touring. I'm in once the battery tech is much better than what it is now...probably 5 to 10 years tops. Cheers

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Originally Posted by goingbush

And there you have it .

I say they are rarely used for what they were designed for . Mine was designed to be pushed out of the back of a C130 or slung under a helicopter but Ive never done that with it .
But you weren't the army buyer who specified this ability when new, you got it secondhand !

80% of owners of NEW 4x4's never take them off bitumen , and most of those only ever do commutes / trips to shops / school / soccer etc .
When the vehicles are new you're possibly right, the figure may be even higher.
When an EV is older it's value will possibly plummet because of the cost of replacing the batteries.
In the future where will we get an older 4WD that we can take bush at a reasonable price without having to buy a new battery pack ?

Just driving an Electric 4x4 around for the last 6 months has convinced me I'll never buy another ICE car again.
Depends, of course, on your driving needs, I do several hundred Km most working days, carry equipment and at the weekend have the wife & 4 kids in the vehicle.

And in a 4x4 , Electric is a perfect match, Can run on any angle - even upside down , can run underwater , can run in bushfire smoke - (don't need oxygen to breathe ). so many advantages but from a pure 4x4 viewpoint 100% torque from zero RPM is the big winner . Not even touching on efficiency or emissions , zero maintenance aspect of it.
I agree with most of these points but worry about the amount of electronics involved. Not sure about 'zero' maintenance though.....

Sure Range Anxiety is real but no more so than in your in a petrol car running low on petrol .
But simple to carry jerry cans of fuel when on long trips & remove for the daily drive. Filling up takes minutes rather than hours.

For those that mostly do long distance remote touring in your 4x4 , sure EV are not there yet. but wont be long. Hybrid are not the answer but think "turbine range extender " .

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For a lot of urban drivers the EV is definitely the future.

Green as far as emissions go but I'm still uncertain that overall they are really 'green'. Like most modern appliances they are not designed (at the moment) to be repaired so crash it and throw it away. Tesla seem to have issues in the US with parts support but probably because their sales are growing so fast.
Yes all the parts might be recyclable and the car has been a consumable for years but I can see the useful life actually getting shorter.

The more concerning aspect will be all the electronics to run these vehicles, how reliable will these be in a 4WD ?
As it gets older it will need the battery pack replacing how many years before "I'm sorry sir/madam that vehicle is no longer supported".
There will be the 'aftermarket', battery costs will reduce and battery technology will change. When they come up with a standard for the battery packs so that they fit all makes & model it will be a step forward (but I really can't see this happening).
The alternative could leasing batteries on a swap & go basis.

I've never been an early adopter so will sit back and watch from the sidelines.

When the automobile first came on the scene you went to a shop and purchased petrol in tins. In 20 years time we'll be doing the same as the use of the ICE dwindles to a few enthusiasts living in the past (like those running early Land Rover at the moment)


Colin
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Originally Posted by gromit

For a lot of urban drivers the EV is definitely the future.

Green as far as emissions go but I'm still uncertain that overall they are really 'green'. Like most modern appliances they are not designed (at the moment) to be repaired so crash it and throw it away. Tesla seem to have issues in the US with parts support but probably because their sales are growing so fast.
Yes all the parts might be recyclable and the car has been a consumable for years but I can see the useful life actually getting shorter.

The more concerning aspect will be all the electronics to run these vehicles, how reliable will these be in a 4WD ?
As it gets older it will need the battery pack replacing how many years before "I'm sorry sir/madam that vehicle is no longer supported".
There will be the 'aftermarket', battery costs will reduce and battery technology will change. When they come up with a standard for the battery packs so that they fit all makes & model it will be a step forward (but I really can't see this happening).
The alternative could leasing batteries on a swap & go basis.

I've never been an early adopter so will sit back and watch from the sidelines.

When the automobile first came on the scene you went to a shop and purchased petrol in tins. In 20 years time we'll be doing the same as the use of the ICE dwindles to a few enthusiasts living in the past (like those running early Land Rover at the moment)


Colin
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Yep. Cant argue with that Colin. The way technology is now were forced to buy a new phone or computer every few years because they just stop working as new software updates creep in. Built in obsolescence started 40 years ago when Victa stsrted making lawnmower pistons from lead [emoji12].

Can't see EV being any different. That said the same goes for the current crop of ICE 4x4 , how long is a D5 going to last without dealer support . Packed so full of electronic equipment its crazy.

Apart from the controller which is milspec reliable EV dont really need anything else. Oh yeah . the throttle pot. .... Point in case the Chinese and Indian consumer EV'S as basic as you can get.

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Originally Posted by gromit

The more concerning aspect will be all the electronics to run these vehicles, how reliable will these be in a 4WD ?

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I find this mildly hilarious since the manufacturer featured on this forum has been selling exclusively electronic controlled vehicles since 1994 (P38) and 1998 (TD5) and the world hasn't come to an end. By that reckoning a 300TDi powered D1 or Deafener must shortly be worth millions. [bigsmile1]

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Originally Posted by bee utey

I find this mildly hilarious since the manufacturer featured on this forum has been selling exclusively electronic controlled vehicles since 1994 (P38) and 1998 (TD5) and the world hasn't come to an end. By that reckoning a 300TDi powered D1 or Deafener must shortly be worth millions. [bigsmile1]

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And the P38 is known for it's electrical reliability........

Colin

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Originally Posted by gromit

And the P38 is known for it's electrical reliability........

Colin

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Exactly. Just because there are occasional smoke clouds issuing from fuse boxes and dash boards going crazy doesn't mean that people stop loving and using them. Fixing electrical faults is no more difficult than fixing mechanical faults, just needs a different toolbox. I spent a fair bit of time last week in the bowels of someone's elderly P38 doing elec and mech works and despite it not ending up perfect it still gets a smile when you boot it.