Thread: Emission Regulations Query

I built up a hotty 2 litre in a datto for a mate. 76 degree rally cam. Fed with a quaddy and a custom made intake made by me. Thing was crazy.
We (he) got busted for noise. I designed it with a flange in the exhaust for exactly this.
Pulled up around the corner from the exhaust joint for the epa noise test and put in a metal plate with a few holes drilled in it.
Car would not rev over 3 grand lol. Barely able to drive.

Guy looked at the car, looked at me, looked at the car again and shook his head

Did the tests and we passed. Around the corner took what was left of the metal plate out and BOP BOP BOPPED all the way home.

Fond memories.

Originally Posted by DAMINK

I built up a hotty 2 litre in a datto for a mate. 76 degree rally cam. Fed with a quaddy and a custom made intake made by me. Thing was crazy.
We (he) got busted for noise. I designed it with a flange in the exhaust for exactly this.
Pulled up around the corner from the exhaust joint for the epa noise test and put in a metal plate with a few holes drilled in it.
Car would not rev over 3 grand lol. Barely able to drive.

Guy looked at the car, looked at me, looked at the car again and shook his head

Did the tests and we passed. Around the corner took what was left of the metal plate out and BOP BOP BOPPED all the way home.

Fond memories.

When noise testing first came in for rally cars in the mid ‘80s we used to use steel wool. Stuff it up the exhaust for the noise test and car would barely run. Once passed we’d run up the road and rev the pickhandles out of it to blow the steel wool out.

We were young and stupid back then and didn’t know any better. Now we’re just old and stupid.

Without reading all of it, as the topic has be well flogged with regards to deleting the cat....

In general.....
*removing CAT, DPF, wont be legal.
*raising vehicle more than 2" in combo of wheels/suspension wont be legal.
*doing a remap and deleting out EGR wont be legal.
*doing EGR blanking wont be legal.

So essentially from what I am getting is whatever is newer will be what decides the emissions of the vehicle. If the car is 2010 and you put a 1980s engine in it, it will have to meet 2010 regulations. If your car is 1980 and you got a 2010 engine, the engine has to meet 2010 regulations. Which means you cant win either way?

Regarding the lift being illegal over 2", i have seen a landcruiser with 40" wheels engineered to be legal. The lift can be done if all other factors are made to meet the new build if you will. Thats not a cant be done but rather depends on what else you do to make it work. Emissions on other hand cant be engineered to be removed.

Originally Posted by G.man

Emissions on other hand cant be engineered to be removed.

There used to be a thriving market for straight LPG conversions fitted to non compliant engines, although I doubt that it's much of a thing any more. LPG used to be a guaranteed way of getting a pre emission engine to pass in vehicles up to around 1985 vintage, pre cat converters. Mainly you got rid of any requirement for unburnt fuel vapour emissions normally controlled by charcoal canisters etc.

Originally Posted by G.man

So essentially from what I am getting is whatever is newer will be what decides the emissions of the vehicle. If the car is 2010 and you put a 1980s engine in it, it will have to meet 2010 regulations. If your car is 1980 and you got a 2010 engine, the engine has to meet 2010 regulations. Which means you cant win either way?

Regarding the lift being illegal over 2", i have seen a landcruiser with 40" wheels engineered to be legal. The lift can be done if all other factors are made to meet the new build if you will. Thats not a cant be done but rather depends on what else you do to make it work. Emissions on other hand cant be engineered to be removed.

Yep, you would have to meet the 2010 regulations. From a Victorian perspective I'm currently going through the process of putting a 2001 EFI engine into a 1978 vehicle. My engineer is happy to sign this off without EPA testing provided I retain ALL of the emissions, computer, intake and exhaust configuration. Here's the rub for me, I have a logistical problem as the engine is out of a FWD vehicle going into a RWD car so the exhaust manifold is totally unsuitable, the engineer will let me fabricate my own exhaust manifold so long as the oxygen sensor and cat remain in relatively the same position as they did in the donor vehicle.

If I was to add quad throttle bodies, Motec, etc... no probs, I can still do this but then I will be subjected to EPA testing and will have to meet the standards as at 2001. So if you have the $$$ for dyno time, pollution testing, etc you can engineer and alternative emissions configuration. You just have to meet the standards of the day of the younger of the car/engine.

Another comment was made to removing engine numbers, good luck with that, you are in for a world of pain if Vicroads get wind of that and there are ways of retrieving the original number metallurgically if they smell a rat.

Then you get into the realms of insurance issues. Having had to deal with two recent crashes involving my cars (....I was driving on either occasion and on both occasions the cars had to be towed and the drivers of the other vehicles were at fault...) I've slept well knowing my car was completely legal. Interestingly with the last one the panel beater took photos of the entire exterior of the car and some interior shots, this is apparently standard policy for that insurer. You can draw your own conclusions why they're doing that. Another friend was involved in a crash where all vehicles at the scene were impounded for a number of weeks as the Police investigated the cause and mechanical condition of the cars. I'de hate to have an illegial mod pop up in that investigation.

I've got an Isuzu County that I'm planning to turbo, even though with the turbo I'll have less Hp than the V8 I still have to have it engineered and for peace of mind I'll be doing that. Its a pain and seems pointless but not worth the risk of being uninsured in my book.

Originally Posted by Zcoota

I'm currently going through the process of putting a 2001 EFI engine into a 1978 vehicle.

Sounds like an interesting project. Do tell.

Originally Posted by jon3950

Sounds like an interesting project. Do tell.

Lol, it is. My affliction with British machinery extends to Ford Escorts, having rallied them for a few years the last (I think its the 16th I've owned) is a particularly tidy Mk2 Escort that currently has a 1600 Kent motor in it. Ford, bless the engineer's hearts, kept the same bell housing pattern when they transitioned from rear wheel drive to some of the front wheel drive models and the Zetec motor found in the Focus and Mondeo will bolt directly up to an Escort gearbox. There is a little tweaking that has to be done for the conversion but the key items are new exhaust manifold, I'll fabricate a new sump, new engine mounts and I'll have to relocate the thermostat into an external housing as it currently sits on the back of the block and will foul the firewall.

Its a fairly popular conversion in the UK with off the shelf conversion kits available but I'm using this as a bit of a father-son exercise so we're going to fabricate everything ourselves. In the UK they seem to have more freedoms with regards to emissions on this sort of conversion so you can run twin side draught carburetors, you can even buy a cast rocker cover that makes the engine look like a classic BDA that was run by rally cars back in the day.

In the end I'll end up with some very modern drivable horsepower in a classic car and still maintain a bit of the Ford DNA. Yes the Escort's came out with a 2 litre but its a single cam and very heavy lump, its heavier than the Rover V8!