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Thread: TD5 Rough Idle on First Start

  1. #1
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    TD5 Rough Idle on First Start

    Hello, my 2004 110 TD5 has developed an annoying problem on the first start after sitting for a bit, and I’m looking for some guidance as to where go next…

    The problem first presented itself the day after a routine (160,000 km) service: Go out to start the car in the morning, battery’s good, starter’s good, engine cranks over just fine and she fires up on the first attempt (as usual), but the idle is rough (this is unusual, and new.)

    The idle is very rough, for just a few seconds, before settling into its familiar, regular old idle.

    Weird. Turned the car off, started it up again, just to check, and she fires up and idles perfectly. Use the car on and off for the rest of the day without incident, and park it up overnight.

    Next morning, same thing.

    First start, rough idle, then settles down. Fine for the rest of the day, and I don’t think much about it, suspect mabye some dirty fuel or something like that, and expect it’ll settle down.

    Head off on an extended drive, from Melbourne to Tuross Head and return for a long weekend, hoping a long drive would do the trick. Parked up at the campsite for a few days, but no, problem’s still there, and I start thinking, not dodgy fuel.

    The problem is perfectly consistent over the next couple of weeks — first cold start, rough idle, subsequent starts during the day all good — until, one day, instead of rough idle and settling down, there’s a rough idle and then the engine dies. Second attempt, starts up perfectly (which is just like all the previous second starts after the problem first showed up.)

    After a week or so of dying after the rough idle on the first attempt, and starting on the second attempt as expected, the engine wouldn’t fire up at all; it took half a dozen or so attempts before it fired up. Everything worked as expected for the rest of the day, all subsequent first attempts are good, but at this point I decided to get the mechanic to check it out.

    In a nutshell, they weren’t really sure what was causing the problem.

    The computer reported a fault with injector #1, and we ended up sending them all way for reconditioning. They also replaced the fuel pump, which had been noisy for a while.

    Neither of those procedures fixed the problem.

    Next they suggested the fuel filter housing might be leaking air into the fuel line, and that was replaced too. This was all just before Easter. Car seemed fine the next day, so we headed off to Walhalla for the long weekend.

    After parking up overnight, car was back to its initial symptoms: first start, rough idle, then settles down, and now it seems to be back to this behaviour consistently.

    I’m fresh out of ideas and, to be honest, don’t trust the workshop to have another crack at it since we seem to be right back where we started, after some considerable expense reconditioning injectors, replacing the fuel pump and filter housing. Any ideas? Where should I look next?
    --
    1999 Discovery II V8
    2004 Defender 110 TD5

  2. #2
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    Sounds like injector seals to me did they replace them when they serviced the injectors. My td5 had same symptoms. replaced seals all good.

  3. #3
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    Thanks Bazz, the invoice states 'Refitted injectors and rocker cover with new gaskets and seals', so I'm assuming yes, but I will confirm that they've fitted new seals and not just refitted the old ones.
    --
    1999 Discovery II V8
    2004 Defender 110 TD5

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikehargreaves View Post
    Hello, my 2004 110 TD5 has developed an annoying problem on the first start after sitting for a bit, and I’m looking for some guidance as to where go next…

    The problem first presented itself the day after a routine (160,000 km) service: Go out to start the car in the morning, battery’s good, starter’s good, engine cranks over just fine and she fires up on the first attempt (as usual), but the idle is rough (this is unusual, and new.)

    The idle is very rough, for just a few seconds, before settling into its familiar, regular old idle.

    Weird. Turned the car off, started it up again, just to check, and she fires up and idles perfectly. Use the car on and off for the rest of the day without incident, and park it up overnight.

    Next morning, same thing.

    First start, rough idle, then settles down. Fine for the rest of the day, and I don’t think much about it, suspect mabye some dirty fuel or something like that, and expect it’ll settle down.

    Head off on an extended drive, from Melbourne to Tuross Head and return for a long weekend, hoping a long drive would do the trick. Parked up at the campsite for a few days, but no, problem’s still there, and I start thinking, not dodgy fuel.

    The problem is perfectly consistent over the next couple of weeks — first cold start, rough idle, subsequent starts during the day all good — until, one day, instead of rough idle and settling down, there’s a rough idle and then the engine dies. Second attempt, starts up perfectly (which is just like all the previous second starts after the problem first showed up.)

    After a week or so of dying after the rough idle on the first attempt, and starting on the second attempt as expected, the engine wouldn’t fire up at all; it took half a dozen or so attempts before it fired up. Everything worked as expected for the rest of the day, all subsequent first attempts are good, but at this point I decided to get the mechanic to check it out.

    In a nutshell, they weren’t really sure what was causing the problem.

    The computer reported a fault with injector #1, and we ended up sending them all way for reconditioning. They also replaced the fuel pump, which had been noisy for a while.

    Neither of those procedures fixed the problem.

    Next they suggested the fuel filter housing might be leaking air into the fuel line, and that was replaced too. This was all just before Easter. Car seemed fine the next day, so we headed off to Walhalla for the long weekend.

    After parking up overnight, car was back to its initial symptoms: first start, rough idle, then settles down, and now it seems to be back to this behaviour consistently.

    I’m fresh out of ideas and, to be honest, don’t trust the workshop to have another crack at it since we seem to be right back where we started, after some considerable expense reconditioning injectors, replacing the fuel pump and filter housing. Any ideas? Where should I look next?
    What happens If you do prime before you start it. Ie: 5 pumps on the acellerator at the start position. Does that remove the rough idle?

  5. #5
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    Will give that a go in the morning, Troy. Thanks.
    --
    1999 Discovery II V8
    2004 Defender 110 TD5

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TroyMortimer View Post
    What happens If you do prime before you start it. Ie: 5 pumps on the acellerator at the start position. Does that remove the rough idle?
    Primed before start this morning, perfect, nice smooth idle first go.
    --
    1999 Discovery II V8
    2004 Defender 110 TD5

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikehargreaves View Post
    Primed before start this morning, perfect, nice smooth idle first go.
    If the priming pressurized the system, there must be air slipping in or escaping out some how. Did you say they replaced the fuel presure regulator? Is there much desiel around it?

  8. #8
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    How about something as simple as 2 gaskets on fuel filter? Seeing it started after a service. Also check that ther eare not 2 gaskets on the fuel filter drain which is pretty easy to do.

    Regards Philip A

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the help so far. Last 2 mornings the car's started first go, so the priming's done the trick, at least for the time being.

    Went to remove the plastic engine cowling and discovered one of its retaining bolts has stripped its thread, so I can't take that off to check if there's fuel around the regulator. Will get that sorted, and see how the car starts after leaving it sit for 2 o 3 days.
    --
    1999 Discovery II V8
    2004 Defender 110 TD5

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