Thread: Who else is going over to the dark side?

Originally Posted by one_iota

I'll add that with a story that was told to me when I worked for the construction company Thiess.

At the time of the Snowy Mountains Scheme construction, Leslie Thiess who was doing some of the civil work was looking for a rugged vehicle that could move around from site to site. He was having problems with the Land Rovers that were breaking and there was very little support available for servicing and repairs. He was approached by Toyota who offered to not only supply him with its vehicles but also Toyota engineers to support those in the field. Of course, the spin-off for Toyota was an on-the-ground experience to feedback into its design and manufacturing. So was born the first Toyota dealership: Thiess Toyota. It became the working vehicle of choice because the dealership and its service were spread throughout the country.

So where was Land Rover?....crickets I hear.

Indeed , Land rover has in many ways led the way, look at the first Range Rover, first coil sprung, permanent 4wd, 4 wheel disc brake , centre diff, and that was 1969. The problem has always been they just never refined the original designs. Problems they were well aware of they did nothing to rectify. The same thing is still present. Most will know of the issues with the 3.0 litre motors that self destruct. Land Rover are very reluctant to help owners at all once this happens out of warranty. Another example is the oil leaking main harness on the Td5 engine. 6 years of production and no change of design of a very common problem that had to be known within 6 months or so of build. They better be careful as the new cars are all capable only by the tech and the oppositions vehicles are simply a software upgrade away from being as good.

Sorry guys i am just a bit jaded at the moment with the brand. I think they have just drifted so far from the original concept of the Land Rover which drew us to it at the beginning. Simple, purposeful, utilitarian, sort of a Swiss army knife of vehicle. Nothing they make could be further from that now. ... In my opinion, for what that's worth.

Originally Posted by chuck

Have placed an order on a Silver 79 series dual cab.

10 months away so should get new 22 MY

Upgraded a few things to make it more civilised.

I think that is some of the appeal - customisation.

Can put on bull bars, lifts etc.

Hilux does have more power but to me less potential, plus completely different seating position.

Yes I have been looking as well. What was the lead time quoted to you? I have heard up to 12 months. What did you upgrade and cost if you don't
mind me asking?

Originally Posted by Deefa

....... the oppositions vehicles are simply a software upgrade away from being as good.

.........I think they have just drifted so far from the original concept of the Land Rover which drew us to it at the beginning. Simple, purposeful, .

I think you are on track with your perspective Deefa.

Their cars now have very little to distinguish them from its competitors. People who buy expensive cars generally like to be noticed and stand out from the crowd. LR cars no longer do this. They blend in quite well.

Ford made the same mistake with its Fairlane. Up to the NL the Fairlanes looks were nothing like its litle brother the Falcon. When they brought out the AU Falcon the "AU" Fairlane could barely be differentiated from its lesser brother. Consequently Fairlane sales plummeted and soon after was discontinued.

Originally Posted by chuck

Have placed an order on a Silver 79 series dual cab.

10 months away so should get new 22 MY

Upgraded a few things to make it more civilised.

I think that is some of the appeal - customisation.

Can put on bull bars, lifts etc.

Hilux does have more power but to me less potential, plus completely different seating position.

Much better option than a Hilux IMO.

Not that I hate Hiluxs - They've been my company car and daily driver for 6 years, but if I was buying one myself I'd go something else.

Originally Posted by chuck

Have placed an order on a Silver 79 series dual cab.

Hilux does have more power but to me less potential, plus completely different seating position.

You make a great point Chuck. I reckon I would buy a 4wd on seating position alone. I love the seating position of my 110 - nice and high (I have even raised the seat a little bit to make it even better). The 79's seating position feels similar to the 110. Pretty much every other Japanese 4wd or ute has the wrong seating position for me - way too low. The Prado's that I drive for work always give me a sore back and neck on a long drive.

Edward

Originally Posted by I Love My Landy!

You make a great point Chuck. I reckon I would buy a 4wd on seating position alone. I love the seating position of my 110 - nice and high (I have even raised the seat a little bit to make it even better). The 79's seating position feels similar to the 110. Pretty much every other Japanese 4wd or ute has the wrong seating position for me - way too low.
Edward

same for me...

Originally Posted by Arapiles

That's not exactly correct .... the Japanese wanted to improve their quality and asked Deming for assistance - he didn't force them on the country unilaterally.

"While in Japan, his expertise in quality-control techniques, combined with his involvement in Japanese society, brought him an invitation from the Union of Japanese Scientists and Engineers (JUSE).
JUSE members had studied Shewhart's techniques, and as part of Japan's reconstruction efforts, they sought an expert to teach statistical control."

W. Edwards Deming - Wikipedia

Sorry but I would invite you to reread my comment as it would appear you have totally misconstrued what I said, at no stage did I say Deming or anyone else forced the Japanese to do anything and yes I am aware that he was invited to assist and guide Japanese industry post WW2, as I said, I read about it at length over forty years ago, which is decades before Wikipedia was created as a source.

I was merely pointing out, in what was meant to be a humorous manner, how and why the Japanese ended up being considered as the country that produced the highest quality products, after it was pointed out by Paul (Scarry) that my choice of a German vehicle was not such a good choice as they are not as reliable or well built as Toyota's.

Originally Posted by Deefa

Indeed , Land rover has in many ways led the way, look at the first Range Rover, first coil sprung, permanent 4wd, 4 wheel disc brake , centre diff, and that was 1969. The problem has always been they just never refined the original designs. Problems they were well aware of they did nothing to rectify. The same thing is still present. Most will know of the issues with the 3.0 litre motors that self destruct. Land Rover are very reluctant to help owners at all once this happens out of warranty. Another example is the oil leaking main harness on the Td5 engine. 6 years of production and no change of design of a very common problem that had to be known within 6 months or so of build. They better be careful as the new cars are all capable only by the tech and the oppositions vehicles are simply a software upgrade away from being as good..

Only in 4x4’s,most of the LR ‘innovations’ have or had been used in other vehicles for years,even decades before LR used them.

I think their biggest issue is reliability,and this blame has to go to the people that run the company,or have run it over the years.

Surely anyone that ran a company that was continually at the bottom of all the reliability surveys,and has a general reputation for unreliability,would do something about it.

Seems not much has been done at all,in fact one large UK survey mob actually noted that the Puma Defender was the most unreliable vehicle they had ever surveyed.

Looking closer at those surveys,it’s the Japanese manufacturers that are generally at or close to the top.