Thread: Lithium Crank Battery

Its going to be challenging to get a voltage reading safely on the existing one as when I parked it up 2 weeks ago after a 90 minute run from the garage and this is after waiting a few hours I still could not touch the battery as was still that hot, needless to say when my brother checked it yesterday there was nothing even to open the door locks.

Dave who created this post "Lithium Start Battery", I don't know how to share the link had one but reading his posts he sold the car 2 years later so cant get any details on longevity from him.

Since its clearly not been a common modification I think I will stick with another Varta battery since I had such a good run from the last one.

Thanks for all the replies.

Garry

Originally Posted by Garry

Its going to be challenging to get a voltage reading safely on the existing one as when I parked it up 2 weeks ago after a 90 minute run from the garage and this is after waiting a few hours I still could not touch the battery as was still that hot
Garry

Hi Garry and see if you can get a voltage reading when the battery has been sitting over night.

It is unusual for any battery to get that hot, even if it is in an engine bay, with one exception, and that is when the battery has dropped a cell.

My guess is that that is what has happened to yours and even after a good charge, the battery will settle back to 10.5v.

Actually, you're right. I realised I mispoke. I should have said it seems to sit on 14 volts all the time, not 13. My bad.
I don't think it qualifies as a smart alternator though.

Originally Posted by MLD

Puma alternator is a self exciting alternator controlled by the ECU over CAN Bus. The ECU reads the voltage load on the system and communicates with the regulator in the alternator to control the voltage output. if you are getting 13v constant its running in default mode and there is a problem with your regulation. AFAIK it maxes out at 14.6v and should sit in the 14.2-14.4v range when charging. You can buy the regulator as a replacement part.

Originally Posted by drivesafe

Hi Garry and see if you can get a voltage reading when the battery has been sitting over night.

It is unusual for any battery to get that hot, even if it is in an engine bay, with one exception, and that is when the battery has dropped a cell.

My guess is that that is what has happened to yours and even after a good charge, the battery will settle back to 10.5v.

I will have a look next week when I'm home, thanks.

Garry

I thought I’d chime in and mention my experience with both my ITech World Cranking lithium and rear accessory lithium batteries.

Im more than happy with them and have been running them for approx two years plus now. I’ve not had any failures on the road or in the bush, can drive a couple of thousand kms ie Tassie to Canberra and back with no problems or consideration.

My Redarc battery gauge shows around 13.5 to 14V as the operating charge and honestly, it just does what it’s supposed to do, with no issues starting my 6.2 V8 LS3.

Of interest the other day while reassembling the back end my vehicle with the stereo running, I lost all power to the vehicle from the main battery (alarm began sounding as it thought it was bypassed by crims) and thought to myself, “how did I blow a fusible link while not touching wiring”. It then dawned on me that I had the lithium start battery. I connected the lithium multi charger and yep, below 25%. I charged it overnight in situ and all was good in the morning.

It was interesting as they shut them self down with no warning due to the inbuilt protection software vs fading away and giving warning. I just re educated myself Re this quirk and am aware now.

Ive been doing lots of small (ish) jobs on the vehicle and it’s not been driven extensively for quite a while so I’ll cut the battery some slack due to this being it’s first issue since installation. The rear accessory battery just sits there doing it’s thing and powering stuff as needed with no issues. Its connected to a Redarc duel battery manager, I forget the actual unit but it’s not the lithium capable one though. The batteries are advertised to have their own inbuilt circuitry/software ability to accept charge from my ‘Smart’ alternator.

It may run against the accepted performance and theory limitations of Lithium in our application but again, I’m just discussing my actual owner/user experience with the iTech World products as fitted to my vehicle.

Im very happy with them both and while I’ll be watching the starter battery due to the failure the other day, I highly recommend them after two years until I’ve an established reason to find fault with them. If my starter fails again, I’ll get my charging system checked and if needed, revert back to standard in the front, but I’ve no reason to at this stage.

Hi Baytown and as pointed out, the old model Defenders do not have SMART alternators and your own voltage readings confirm this.

As such, you should have no problems using lithium batteries, as the cranking battery and as an auxiliary battery.

You will have an advantage in that short drives will fast charge your lithiums if they are low and your long drives will make sure your batteries are at 100%.

But with any vehicle with a SMART alternator, short drives are fine and will keep a decent charge in lithium batteries to make sure you can continually start the motor, but long drives with a SMART alternator will actually drain lithium batteries.

One point you raised is the Shut-Down voltage.

I believe this is the main reason no vehicle manufacturer use lithium cranking batteries ( with one exception where a lithium cranking battery is offered as a $4,000 OPTION ).

And your brand of battery has one of the highest shut down voltages based on capacity used, meaning if you buy an advertised 100Ah battery you actually only have a 75Ah battery.

Again, with the driving you are doing, the lower capacity will probably not be an issue.

Ahhh, I’ve got confused Re which year of Defenders we were discussing. I thought I had a ‘smart alternator’ as in your previous post you say that Land Rover only used these from 2008 onwards. My 110 is a 2012 model (originally a 2.2).

‘’The original starter of this thread just identifies owning a Defender 90, not their year.

I always appreciate your informed info re electronics, and thanks.👍

Originally Posted by Baytown

Ahhh, I’ve got confused Re which year of Defenders we were discussing

Hi again and I too had it wrong.

I was of the impression that the least models of the old Defenders had SMART alternators but it seams all the Pumas had VARIABLE voltage alternator operation, just like the voltages you posted.

Variable voltage alternators do not operate below 13.5v and this is ideal for charging and maintaining any vehicle battery, be it lead acid or lithium.

Whereas SMART alternators will regularly operate as low 12.5v and lower, with some D4s going as low as 12.2v.

With lead acid batteries, FLOODED/WET cell or AGMs, anything below 12.6v and you are running on the battery, not the alternator.

With lithiums, anything below 13.2v and you are running on the battery, not the alternator, and this is why lithium batteries actually get discharged while driving a SMART alternator vehicle, Land Rover or otherwise.

With your lowest operating voltage of 13.5v, you will always be operating off the alternator while the motor is running, and your lithium battery will only supply power while starting and while camping, as it should be.