Thread: LED Globe Equiv

You'll also need to replace your flasher unit to a LED compatible type.
BLAP sell these too but I don't know if they're a straight fit in the Defender.

Crikey! I won't be doing the P38A dash. There are 23 globes in that and even at the sale price of $6.50 a globe......

You should be aware that use of LED bulbs in fittings designed for incandescent lights is not legal. While it is unlikely that you would get booked for it, a picky insurance company could get nasty in the event of an accident. (Of course the same applies to fitting HID bulbs to headlamps designed for halogens, and you are much more likely to get booked for this, particularly if the headlamp wiper/washers and levelling from the drivers position as required for HID lights are not fitted).

The reason for this ban is that the LED bulbs do not have the same light source shape as the incandescent bulb that the lens was designed for, and may not provide an even spread of light in all directions as the original lamp did when it was tested for approval. It does not mean that the LED does not meet the standards required for approval, but that it has not been tested in that fitting, although I would be surprised if it did meet the standards required, as individual LEDs are directional where incandescent bulbs are not.

John

Originally Posted by p38arover

Crikey! I won't be doing the P38A dash. There are 23 globes in that and even at the sale price of $6.50 a globe......

Let alone the 23 different bulb failure warnings you'll have displayed .

... In addition to the above, LEDs with their 'instant-on' do not generate the same physiological reaction in the viewer as does the incandescent with its (relatively) slow climb to full brightness.
This is called the 'Looming Response' and is common to all higher animals, and explains why a rotating beacon - especially blue - has a higher degree of noticeability than the modern equivalent of dinky flashy lights...

More importantly the 'growth' in brilliance is perceived as growth in size.. - try it yourself, watch the indicator (incandescent) of the car in front, or the brake light.
This perceived 'getting BIGGER' registers as 'continuing to grow' even when full brightness has arrived. When we notice the growth it attracts and holds our attention for longer than the 'enlarging' phase, - in case it continues to get bigger and hence potentially more dangerous to us...

LEDs don't frighten us as much, they merely startle.

The same applies to sound, such as standard horns vs air horns, both reaching the same level though frequency has its own effects as well.

My company used to print many of the research papers from our local Universitiy, which is where I got the above from.

For myself, despite "Technology" being an interest of mine, I'll stick to incandescents as they are currently the most appropriate for the task.

Especially relevant is the point made above, regarding the dispersion of light from a LED. Its limited and well-defined and worst of all, ADR's do not seem to protect us from rubbishy products... just from badly labelled ones!!!

Some expensive Brand-Name LED light assemblies have dangerously diminished output when viewed 'off-axis'...

Thus endeth my Rant.

Originally Posted by Scouse

Let alone the 23 different bulb failure warnings you'll have displayed .

Yep - like this when a LED is fitted into the number plate lamp:

I’ve replaced all my lights both internal and external (Speedo yet to do) with LED’s and HID lights.

I agree with the comment that LED’s are directional and this is particularly noticeable on the rear number plate light. Because of the design of the bulb holders when you replace the incandescent bulbs with LED’s the light is directed out the side rather than down on the number plate.

On the front side blinkers this was again evident, so I had to use SMD’s with four light emitting pads. Another example of the directional nature of LED’s is the leaver (air) control illumination. I’ve used SMD’s with three pads but I don’t think the illumination is as good and the incandescent bulbs, mind you I’ve gone “red”.

Incandescent bulbs with their non direction light spread perform better in certain situations.

Overall LED’s are a good replacement however you need to seriously look at the arrangement of the LED’s on the bulb to ensure they maintain the same directional visibility.

I accept the comments about the “growth” effect of incandescent bulbs V LED’s. I’m not sure that this is an issue. New vehicles are using LED’s so while at a scientific level the “growth/startling” effect may be true given new vehicles are using LED’s the significance of this scientific observation in vehicles can’t be high.

On my brake and blinker LED’s I used the clear/white LED rather than coloured LED’s. The lenses provide the colour the LED’s only have to light them up.

With the blinkers I replaced all mine and the standard flasher-can worked fine up until I did the two front side blinkers. The standard flasher-can works on current draw and when the draw drops too low the “can” turns on and off and emits an almost continuous buzz and the blinkers don’t work properly.

If you change to a compatible LED flasher-can you don’t get the blinker “clinking sound” nor do you get the trailer attached dash light working. The LED flasher-can’s available in Australia only have three pin’s.

The fourth pin (pilot/tail) which is used to in the trailer attached dash light is not there. You can get a LED compatible flasher-can in the UK I think they are about £25 plus postage.

In relation to insurance companies, they simply can’t deny a claim because you are using LED’s or HID’s. For an insurer to do this they must be able to not only prove the vehicle was un- roadworthy but also this un-roadworthy condition was the cause of the accident.

I’ll try and find the NSW regulations for lights but last time I looked it set wiring & height requirements for driving and spotlights. It set height and colour for general lights. It didn’t cover off on specific light intensities. It didn’t say HID’s or LED’s can’t be used on older vehicles.

Note I’m in a 2001 TD5 defender. If as indicated below your vehicle uses current draw in its “ECU” warning other issues may arise. I know some solutions put up involve the use of resistors to fool the ECU.

I must say in all honesty, I only changed to LED’s because I could. Unless you are looking to reduce current draw or wish to leave parkers on all night and come back and the battery still start you I’m not sure there is any value in changing to LED’s.

In older cars where traditional festoon interior lights “yellow and make brittle” the plastic lens covers the LED festoons are a good replacement.

My 2c.

Originally Posted by scott oz

New vehicles are using LED’s so while at a scientific level the “growth/startling” effect may be true given new vehicles are using LED’s the significance of this scientific observation in vehicles can’t be high.

One can't use manufacturers as good design examples.

Back in the Sixties, the Ford Falcon had its amber flasher in the middle of the tail light. When the brakes were on (in bright daylight) the amber flasher was almost impossible to see.

That style of lamp eventually disappeared. However, I notice a number of new cars have gone back to that arrangement - with the same effect.