Thread: Td5 vs PUMA - Thoughts?

Up close, there is much to be admired in the Puma.

However, in the bush, comfort, presence and refinement amount to nothing, if you get stranded on account of a small part failure.

With all of the small component failures that I have read in this forum, in addition to general quality issues that would not be tolerated in other makes and models there is no compelling reason to upgrade - particularly if your existing drive is running as well as you say. From the standpoint of going bush, I just don't trust a Puma - even though on paper, it is an improvement over the Td5.

I would perhaps wait until there are further refinements to the Puma in successive model years, particularly in the engine bay department [not necessarily the engine itself, but everything around it].

I hear what people are saying here. But I have driven a Puma all over Australia. I also use it off road - and don't spare the duco, if you know what I mean.

I can only go by how my vehicle has been, and I trust it in the bush. At least as much as I would trust a slightly older TD5 Fender! We are going to find out for sure over the coming years anyway - and another outback trip next winter will be another test.

These forums will attract more negative issues that threads saying, I drove my xyz to abc and nothing went wrong! I know plenty of guys with older Fenders in our club who have little issues all the time. As do the Pumas, but I really don't think that on the whole the Puma can be regarded as less reliable than the previous model. And it does kill the TD5 in comfort and ease of use.

But both are great trucks. If I had a newish TD5 - I wouldn't buy a Puma either.

i think we have had more than our fair share of issues, mostly sorted now, but at the end of the day i have no worries about taking the puma anywere, ironically the one area that has caused us no problems has been the electrics, as for comfort fuel economy speed etc its all good and an improvment over previous models.
ian

Another significant point to be made is that the Puma has only been on the road for 2 years. There is a growing body of knowledge based on real world experience and two of those are expressed immediately above. As we get to know the beast better the more confidence there will be.

I'm sure if this discussion was being had in 2002 it would be about whether to keep the 300Tdi or buy a new Td5 with all its electrics, its oil in the harness and oil pump bolt issues.

For what it's worth, here is my summary list of Defender issues that exist based on people's postings:

Firstly, issues which are common to Defenders of just about any age:
- Paint quality
- Panel fit & finish
- Water leaks
- Interior trim quality & fit
- Clutch master cylinder crapping itself at regular intervals
- TC & ABS sensor failures
I'm sure there are others, but my point is that several of these (quality, fit & finish issues) are raised more so by new vehicle owners but are in no way unique to the Puma Defender. The level of irritation is simply a result of the amount of $$$ spent on a new vehicle. Others like the clutch master cylinder issue have been around for ages and I expect in a couple of years we will see all the Puma Defenders having their master cylinders replaced bi-annually.

Secondly we have issues which have been raised but are all fixable under warranty and have now had design changes:
- Vacuum pump (now fixed on 09MY onwards we presume)
- Sump pan (now fixed on 08MY onwards)
- Water in fuel, breather location (LR fix not necessarily the best - better fixes effected by owners themselves)
- A Frame chassis brackets (fixed from 08MY onwards)
- Front brake rattle - anti-rattle kit available for installation
- Fuel pressure relief valve - available warranty fix.
- Clutch noise & poor selection - upgraded clutch return springs on 08MY vehicle onwards.
- Engine start-up knocking - total engine replacement under warranty, revised oil jet design on new models.
- Engine cold post start-up rattle - new ECU map out, presumably all new vehicles have this.
- Prop shaft vibrations - 08MY onwards have re-designed prop-shaft.

Then we have issues which have been reported that have warranty repairs available, but no standard upgrade unless the problem occurs:
- Various engine hoses, lines & components rubbing/wearing - Several people have reported things rubbing and almost wearing through following driving on rough roads. Usually fixed by strategic cable ties but not identified as problems by LR with standard rectification procedures.
- Blown differentials - Several reports of these but possibly the result of a bad batch of diffs supplied to LR. Haven't been many reports in Oz though.
- Blown transfer cases - see above.
- Busted gearboxes - see above.
- Loose exhaust heat shroud - tighten bolts.
- A/C thermal cutout switch failure - Probably a bad batch of switches as mine took two goes to fix.
- Loose bolts on prop-shaft - tighten bolts, should be picked up during a service, probably falls under quality issues.
- Dodgy EGR valve - fix available but not sure if design has changed.

I'm sure there are others I have missed, but these are the main ones. Also there are many other one-off issues that probably relate to general quality rather than design problems (eg. failing indicator flasher relay). The most serious issues above such as blown diffs & gearboxes could be partially the result of owner use (big tyres + suspension mods + towing) coupled with a bad batch of components supplied to Land Rover. I get the feeling that there have been far less of these type of problems here in Australia compared to reports in the UK (is export quality usually better than domestic?).

But as has already been pointed out, there are bound to be more vocal complaints about any problems with a new $50K+ vehicle and the internet just makes it easier to publish these. Also, a lot of peoples' issues have been more related to their dealer experience. In my case, half of all problems have been caused during visits to the service centre by just clumsiness (ie. damaging things whilst putting them back incorrectly or not at all).

Ok can I ask this question......How many people have been stranded in the bush in a puma so far?

We haven't....

Originally Posted by solmanic

... Others like the headlight switch issue have been around for ages and I expect in a couple of years we will see all the Puma Defenders losing their main beam but that's what the wiring upgrade is for...

I believe the Puma's have a relay for their headlights!!! How's that for advanced design? No more burnt out headlight stalk switches

Originally Posted by spudboy

I believe the Puma's have a relay for their headlights!!! How's that for advanced design? No more burnt out headlight stalk switches

That is my understanding too - we don't need the upgraded relay.