Thread: hydrogen fuel

Garry, Freightdog,

Certainly is an emotional topic. Don't let the emotions get away from us.
It's an interesting topic I wouldn't want locked.

Me neither!

At the risk of awakening a sleeping dragon...........I have been interested in hydrogen use in IC engines for some years now, and (contrary to the statement someone made earlier that no working examples have been made) was quite keen to install one of the commercially available units. see this link All About Hydrogen Oxygen Generating System. I have seen them fitted and working by the way.

I had hoped that the unemotional and logical discussion within these revered threads would enlighten me on whether these things actually do improve volumetric efficiency (as per water injection) or not.

So, is there anyone who has actually fitted one and can tell me of the fuel consumption results from their own experience?
Dave

I have just had a chat with Neil from NDM who has been installing Hydrogen Oxygen Generating Systems into all manner of vehicles for 5 years now. He actually buys the generators from the US and manufactures all the other stuff that makes them work properly in a vehicle. I was interested if he was still as confident about the results as he used to be (especially in light of the comments in this thread) and he was more enthusiastic than ever.

He said that (in my series) I should get between 20% and 30% fuel savings, but that the benefits in carbon emission reduction, engine wear and oil change intervals would outweigh that financially. To fit a HOGS to my series will cost me $2500. I will have to do some number crunching and saving!

By my calculations so far (assuming a fuel consumption now of 20L/100km) by fitting a HOGS (30% saving) and an overdrive (25% saving) I should be achieving a fuel consumption that is less than a Disco TD5! Now wouldn't that be nice>

Originally Posted by praxis

I have just had a chat with Neil from NDM who has been installing Hydrogen Oxygen Generating Systems into all manner of vehicles for 5 years now. He actually buys the generators from the US and manufactures all the other stuff that makes them work properly in a vehicle. I was interested if he was still as confident about the results as he used to be (especially in light of the comments in this thread) and he was more enthusiastic than ever.

He said that (in my series) I should get between 20% and 30% fuel savings, but that the benefits in carbon emission reduction, engine wear and oil change intervals would outweigh that financially. To fit a HOGS to my series will cost me $2500. I will have to do some number crunching and saving!

By my calculations so far (assuming a fuel consumption now of 20L/100km) by fitting a HOGS (30% saving) and an overdrive (25% saving) I should be achieving a fuel consumption that is less than a Disco TD5! Now wouldn't that be nice>

Please fit one and report back.

However, to ensure that your fuel consumption figures are not influenced by the placebo effect, it would be ideal if the system was fitted with an on-off switch that is hidden from view and unaccessable to you (e.g. padlocked in a box). Then, for each period between fuel consumption measurements, an impartial 3rd party flips the on off switch randomly to one position or the other.

Please also do oil analysis regularly before and after.

FWIW. My 109 with 2.25P averaged 17 L/100 (fitting an overdrive made no significant difference to fuel consumption IME). 20% less than that is 13.6 L/100, which I could easily achieve by having a light right foot.

Pardon my ignorance, as I don't really know a whole lot about engines.. but wouldnt the water produced when the hydrogen reacts with oxygen have some kind of negative effect on the engine?

Originally Posted by praxis

.....and an overdrive (25% saving)....

Unlikely, as mentioned. Engine friction is a small part of the overall losses of a vehicle, especially a Land Rover. Therefore at best a 30% overdrive may possibly give you 10% off, more likely 5% as the engine advance and mixtures may change under higher load. Adding a 15% overdrive (Supra box) to a V8 sedan gave me a 5% saving on a regular long trip.

As for the hydrogen thingy, there's only one practical place to test it, and that's on a dyno. Anywhere else random errors will swamp the data. Build the gizmo, attatch to an engine, and dyno it for a coupla days, measuring consumption at every power level and setting. Should only cost you a few thousand and you may become famous as the first person to demonstrate without doubt that it works. Or not as it may happen.

Originally Posted by damo_s

Pardon my ignorance, as I don't really know a whole lot about engines.. but wouldnt the water produced when the hydrogen reacts with oxygen have some kind of negative effect on the engine?

Yup, condensation will form at the tailpipe. Just a teeny bit more than by burning regular hydrocarbons.