Thread: ABC Four Corners on Renewable Energy.

Originally Posted by rick130

Ask him if Thorium is any closer to being feasible Ron.
We were the world leader in that technology, and have plentiful supplies.

Will do. I was just Googling his name and found he is shown as the co-inventor in a patent held by the Australian Atomic Energy Commission for a method of producing of uranium hexafluoride.

Uranium hexafluoride (UF6), referred to as "hex" in the nuclear industry, is a compound used in the uranium enrichment process that produces fuel for nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons.

I never knew that about him. He's never mentioned it.

Driving through Europe recently. Quite surprised by the amount of solar I saw installed in fields. More than I've noticed here.

The bit everyone here seems to be forgetting .... is you need 100% capacity backup for wind and solar ... There's a good portion of the day without sun (or clouded) and there certainly no guarantee the wind will always blow .........

I don't see solar or wind as even a limited answer to anything. It either needs to be something small and local that can produce considerable power 24x7 all over australia (transmission losses etc...). Now something like tidal generators or the scheme where they were going to pump water down under the coal to generate steam... Now that's what you call power that can be produced 24x7, and doesn't need 100% capacity back up.

I can't see how there's a simplistic answer to any of this myself.

seeya,
Shane L.

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

The bit everyone here seems to be forgetting .... is you need 100% capacity backup for wind and solar ... There's a good portion of the day without sun (or clouded) and there certainly no guarantee the wind will always blow .........

I don't see solar or wind as even a limited answer to anything. It either needs to be something small and local that can produce considerable power 24x7 all over australia (transmission losses etc...). Now something like tidal generators or the scheme where they were going to pump water down under the coal to generate steam... Now that's what you call power that can be produced 24x7, and doesn't need 100% capacity back up.

I can't see how there's a simplistic answer to any of this myself.

seeya,
Shane L.

Geothermal might be a simplistic answer
Almost anywhere in inland Australia - only needs confident investors - who only need a trustable government.

Terry

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

The bit everyone here seems to be forgetting .... is you need 100% capacity backup for wind and solar ... There's a good portion of the day without sun (or clouded) and there certainly no guarantee the wind will always blow .........

I don't see solar or wind as even a limited answer to anything. It either needs to be something small and local that can produce considerable power 24x7 all over australia (transmission losses etc...). Now something like tidal generators or the scheme where they were going to pump water down under the coal to generate steam... Now that's what you call power that can be produced 24x7, and doesn't need 100% capacity back up.

I can't see how there's a simplistic answer to any of this myself.

seeya,
Shane L.

It looks like that you did not have the chance to watch the program to which this thread it is all about.
Here is your second chance:

Power to the People - Four Corners

Pay attention what they are saying about California, Las Vegas and also what Apple it is doing.

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

The bit everyone here seems to be forgetting .... is you need 100% capacity backup for wind and solar ...

I can't see how there's a simplistic answer to any of this myself.
Shane L.

Shane,

To add to what Chucaro and Rover56 had to say. There is some battery technology that's available now called Vanadium Redox technology (largely Australian developed at Uni NSW) which promises to allow storage of power at relatively low cost. It's very much an industrial scale process at this stage, but I guess could be developed for domestic use in future.

As you'll see on the Four Corners report, heat from solar-thermal arrays can also be stored in molten salt and then used to generate power after the sun goes down, so that does provide a short term form of energy storage.

We should also consider much wider use of another renewable source...biomass. In Europe, many communities generate base load power using tree thinnings, forest waste, agricultural straw, dried livestock dung and combustible components from domestic and commercial waste streams.
We could and should be doing the same thing.

Alan

I saw the molten salt bit. Changing technology, e.g., electronics and computing power, has enabled that focussing of the sunlight in a more cost effective way than many years ago.

The problem with bringing facilities like that on line is the enormous cost of the initial infrastructure. Can the govts. in this country fund it? Unlikely. It would need private investment and those investors would want a guaranteed return.

How long until the govts. introduce a tax on energy derived from renewable sources? They may have to in order bolster their dwindling income from existing power generation.

I recall reading that some country areas, some people were unable to have their solar systems connected to the grid because their local infrastructure couldn't handle the power being put back in.

Re the 4 Corners report, what I found amusing was the need to wear hard hats in an open paddock.

Many years ago, when the internet was younger and less monitored, I came across some articles regarding certain international agreements (by banks and financial bodies) as to who would produce what for whom, and tellingly, what various nations would not support. These were a mixture of carrot and stick, and supposedly binding. They were also not in the public eye...
Europe was for high-end manufacturing, from memory, the US had armaments/industry and industrialised primary & fruit production for exports.
Vaguely recall Asia scored 'value-adding' ,.... but we get to be a hole in the ground.. mineral/mining and broadacre agriculture etc, including - obviously - wool.

Funnily enough, our iron ore works have all (?) shut down, looks like aluminium processing is headed offshore too, heavy and medium industry is being driven to the wall...

No, of course it isn't a Conspiracy Theory, -the way it fits together is a mere co-incidence. Every time. Just like the way imported US fruits fill our supermarkets...as Aussie fruit trees are being ripped out by our un-subsidised growers. Naturally, there's no sensible explanation why the price of Australian wheat has been falling at the rate and extent it has. Who profits from that ? Not the Aussie farmer, regarded as the most efficient in the western world.

The above ties in with what's been happening on the alternative energy scene here in Oz. Or rather, what is NOT happening.... We used to lead the world, and still punch above our weight, yet little or nothing is properly developed or built here for local and Export markets... it usually is 'exported' as intellectual property.
One wonders why financing local ventures seems so impossible for us, yet other countries are able to buy our ideas and make them fly.