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No, I don't. He did it it on Obama's subsidies. He did not risk one single cent of his PayPal money. I don't admire him one little bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by bee utey
If he eventually succeeds, I won't hate him, I don't hate him now; but, he, well perhaps his Tesla company, is built on a tissue of lies. If SpaceX succeeds, well more power to him. I'll wait a bit though. IMO, he's Chris Skase writ large. Maybe I'm wrong. But I'd bet that I'm not.
You keep harping on about ***** subsidies. Did Musk do anything illegal? I'm sure that you're aware that all other US vehicle manufacturers are entitled to subsidies for similar reasons. What about the Ford and Chrysler bailouts? How are they OK and a subsidy for cleaner cars isn't OK?Quote:
Originally Posted by johntins
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh
Musk wants to hide operations and reporting so he can completely control (manipulate) the story line and hence his march to be the worlds first FIRST GEN TRILLIONAIRE.
The bloke is a nutter and really not honest about what he is trying to achieve... if the stated aim of Tesla "to hasten adoption of clean fuels" was true... they would be building conversion kits for existing vehicles instead of competing and adding another range of vehicles & production facility into the mix.
Musk is a typical climate/enviro scam person - slightly deranged and in it for the money/fame and fortune.
Back on topic, I own a Tesla Model X and it is a brilliant car. Unfortunately, my wife thinks so too! So, I rarely get to drive it which is fine as my Defender Perentie is great fun in a very different kind of way.
On the question of service and support, I have a somewhat mixed experience. First, their effort and quality of service is stellar. Yes, quite beyond anything I have experienced from any other car manufacturer over my life time. They have also been consistently stellar. However, when dealing with them, you get the impression that they are still learning as they go along. Their immediate reaction to a problem is to apologise, fix it and send you on your way with a smile on your face. There isn't even a question about warranty. So why is that an issue. It is an issue because a little voice in the back of my head hints that in 10 years or so, they will change that attitude and go to the 'customer is rarely right' model that the other manufacturers seem to have.
Many years ago at a meeting of the Jaguar Car Club the author of a book about Sir William Lyons was giving a talk to the club. He made this incredible comment - "Where Sir William went wrong....." This silly little boy with his typewriter had the gall to be a critic of the worlds most successful one-man-band car manufacturer.
I believe anyone criticising Elon Musk is making the same mistake. He was by nearly a decade the first to build a useful electric car, and a glamorous one, not a touchy-feely one. He is a seer, a visionary, and besides, he has a great name. 'Elon Musk' - rolls off the tongue much better than say Bill Shorten, or Malcom Turnbull.
he's a good salesperson, nothing more.
Hi
On a technical level that would give you a poor electric car. Tesla did the right thing and started from scratch and didn't try to work around the decades old baggage of a conventional vehicle. Otherwise they would have ended up with something similar to what the other motor companies have been trying to peddle for years; low performance, low range electric runabouts.Quote:
Originally Posted by DT-P38
On an economic level doing a retro conversion would be silly and disastrous. Who would pay for a diesel or petrol car and then pay extra to have stuff ripped out and replaced?
As for "range of vehicles & production" Tesla has very few. All the other conventional car makers have dozens of models.
Mike
I know of at least two on this site. One is completed and the other is in progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by speleomike
I have got to say they are really well done, although sadly, lacking in range and quick recharge/refuel time. Much like the Tesla also lacks these necessities for a big country.
I've got to say I admire Elon Musk. He does have the gift of the gab and he is doing things. The CSIRO does things, too. Or, used to do things. We need to try out these things in order to improve our lives. We found out introducing the cane toad to get rid of the cane beetle was not such a good idea but Mixo to reduce the rabbit population was successful.
If someone gave me a Tesla to commute to the city, I'd use it. Unfortunately, they don't have the range and speed of recharging/refuelling I need.
I haven't found range or recharging to be an issue at all. I don't drive more than 650km a day. Usually I recharge the Model X from a regular 10amp wall socket in my shed. I have not needed a quick charger. One thing people need to get their heads around with an electric car is that you leave the house every day with the electric equivalent of a full tank of fuel. With my Defender, I will drive for a week or two and then fill the tank. With the Model X, I don't even think about it. People can bleat on about range and quick charge but in reality, it isn't an issue at all. And for a extra long drive ie more than 650km, I can just stop for a coffee and a pee and top up at one of the dozens of charge points along the highway (you would be surprised how many have already been implemented). Because my bladder won't last that long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh
Well I wish my Defender did 312 000 km (194 000 mile) before it had an issue, and to think my model had been in production for two decades and **** itself on day two from new. And then a couple more before tapping 100 000 klm.
I think good on Musk for having a go and bringing EV's into the for. Apple didn't get anywhere either without government money for smart phones. So without subsidies its more than likely the smart phone would not have been invented, and perhaps EV's.
Musk has copped a lot of flack for being a dreamer, but I'm planning our next car will be a Tesla, and I'm saving my pennies for a prime mover if they ever make it to our shores. Without Musk's perseverance the traditional motor vehicle manufacturers would still be happy producing the same product decade after decade promoting minor twigging. And the fossil fuel industry with all its consumables and destruction of the planet would still be happy to see it that way. And we all would still be at the whim of fuel pricing rather than creating our own autonomy from the sun.
I'm over changing oil every 10K klm with all its consumables and waste. I want 6 moving parts compared to hundred if not thousands in a tradition vehicle. I want the sun to power batteries, and batteries to charged my car, truck, and home. I know from my own house hold power bills, our current hybrid car, and people I know who have Tesla's, there are big saving to be made to the hip pocket and planet using these types of products.