Thread: 400,000 miles in a Tesla Model S in 3 years

Originally Posted by Silenceisgolden

But...but....but... instant charge if by electricity means infinite current, and that could blow the mightiest of fuses.

That is where you would use a "pre-charge" resistor.

All modern Ev's already have one to stop blowing the crap out of the Electronics then you introduce the traction pack contactor to 600 Amps .

Whats wrong with taking a break every 2 hours to avoid fatigue. A 20 minute charge, coffee, stretch doesn't seem that much longer then a fossil stop. There is the advantage when you stop you just plug it in and walk away, no need to stand there and hold the fill hose. Then if one must go if 20 minutes = 500km, 10 minutes will be another 250km. If one prides themselves on 750k in a day on a 10 minute stop, please only drive when no one else is on the road.

Originally Posted by newhue

Whats wrong with taking a break every 2 hours to avoid fatigue. A 20 minute charge, coffee, stretch doesn't seem that much longer then a fossil stop. There is the advantage when you stop you just plug it in and walk away, no need to stand there and hold the fill hose. Then if one must go if 20 minutes = 500km, 10 minutes will be another 250km. If one prides themselves on 750k in a day on a 10 minute stop, please only drive when no one else is on the road.

What about the other 500 cars wanting to charge up at the same time? Imagine the news reports of "charger rage" - "That SOB was so slow getting back with his Chai Latte, that I let his tyres down! That'll teach him to dawdle!"


I am not against the principle of EV's. Like so-called Smart cars, they are useful to a certain number of people, in certain situations. What I do object to, is the green-washing, almost to the point of religious fervour, by some sections of the media with (as usual) little or no regard for reality. They are talking of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of diesel vehicles being arbitrarily banned from cities throughout Europe, as if this is a great leap forward. They have effectively destroyed the resale value of a big proportion of the European car market, the majority of which are privately owned. If you have ever traveled through a city late at night, or been involved in transport/distribution, you would have a small inkling of the amount of heavy vehicle (read diesel) traffic involved in keeping a city running, from stocking the shelves, to carting away the rubbish. But apparently, their politicians must have all these problems figured out!


I also hope that the EV owners realise that a commercial rollout of charge points will inevitably mean that the fee for using them (a "charge/charge" if you like) will increase, thus making less economic sense to own one, rather than an ICE, unless used only for short trips, charged from your home power source (the cost of which will never go up, of course!)


I haven't heard anyone yet giving actual figures of how much their home power bill has risen, since purchasing their EV. There is also, as I understand it, the need to have an electrician install a 15 amp point to charge from, and, if wishing to take advantage of off-peak power prices, a separate circuit for that. In general, the Australian power distribution system (like the data system the NBN is piggy-backing on) is barely up to capacity for the loads it is trying to handle now. Imagine the hue and cry from the power retailers when their "gold plated" systems start buckling under the load of multiple EVs in a street all plugging in at around the same time. Back to "brownouts" sound like fun?

Originally Posted by goingbush

That is where you would use a "pre-charge" resistor.

All modern Ev's already have one to stop blowing the crap out of the Electronics then you introduce the traction pack contactor to 600 Amps .

I am splitting hairs, but stick a resistor in and it won't be instant. It may be quick, but it won't be instant.

Originally Posted by donh54

I also hope that the EV owners realise that a commercial rollout of charge points will inevitably mean that the fee for using them (a "charge/charge" if you like) will increase, thus making less economic sense to own one, rather than an ICE, unless used only for short trips, charged from your home power source (the cost of which will never go up, of course!)

One energy company is offering $1 per day for EV charging. $365 per year on top of your electricity bill. How it works, I don't know. It must have a dedicated circuit. Maybe bypassing metering.

Originally Posted by donh54

I haven't heard anyone yet giving actual figures of how much their home power bill has risen, since purchasing their EV. There is also, as I understand it, the need to have an electrician install a 15 amp point to charge from, and, if wishing to take advantage of off-peak power prices, a separate circuit for that.

15A domestic? Little difference to a 10A. You'd more likely need 3 phase. I reckon I would.

I often wonder at the insistance of EV advocates about how cheap an EV is to run.
Surely the issue is whole of life cost.
I did some back of envelope calculations yesterday on the cost of running a Tesla Model 3 vs a base Camry.
Model3 BASE at $55,000 Camry at $27000, both figures from internet sources.

After 10 years the operating cost of the Camry at say 10L per100Km at 20000 kms per year and $ 1.50 per litre =$30,000.
BUT most of that expenditure is out at least 5 -10 years which has a much lower net present value.(NPV)

I am not fussed enough to do the complete calculation at say 5% discount rate but the NPV of the fuel is much less than $30000 maybe approaching half of that.

Resale value . What is a Model 3 going to be worth in 10 years when the battery warranty is out? What will be the cost of a new battery $20K by the looks? A Camry will have some value maybe $5000. Based on the 400,000 mile Tesla , how many batteries will a model 3 need in 200,000K? One , two?

To All those rivet counters who say what about servicing costs registration etc.
I say how long will it be before Teslas will have an operating tax on them and how long will electricity be cheap? Not long from recent Government events.

The real costs are areas of pure speculation as so much is unknown about the future running costs of the Teslas and other EVs but the running costs of a Camry are pretty well known..

I always laugh at the idea of the Tesla X and Tesla whatever drivers who boast about their running costs . You would want cheap running costs after spending over $200K for one alright.

I think conventional and hybrids will be around for a very long time.
Regards Philip A

Originally Posted by donh54

What about the other 500 cars wanting to charge up at the same time? Imagine the news reports of "charger rage" - "That SOB was so slow getting back with his Chai Latte, that I let his tyres down! That'll teach him to dawdle!"


I am not against the principle of EV's. Like so-called Smart cars, they are useful to a certain number of people, in certain situations. What I do object to, is the green-washing, almost to the point of religious fervour, by some sections of the media with (as usual) little or no regard for reality. They are talking of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of diesel vehicles being arbitrarily banned from cities throughout Europe, as if this is a great leap forward. They have effectively destroyed the resale value of a big proportion of the European car market, the majority of which are privately owned. If you have ever traveled through a city late at night, or been involved in transport/distribution, you would have a small inkling of the amount of heavy vehicle (read diesel) traffic involved in keeping a city running, from stocking the shelves, to carting away the rubbish. But apparently, their politicians must have all these problems figured out!


I also hope that the EV owners realise that a commercial rollout of charge points will inevitably mean that the fee for using them (a "charge/charge" if you like) will increase, thus making less economic sense to own one, rather than an ICE, unless used only for short trips, charged from your home power source (the cost of which will never go up, of course!)


I haven't heard anyone yet giving actual figures of how much their home power bill has risen, since purchasing their EV. There is also, as I understand it, the need to have an electrician install a 15 amp point to charge from, and, if wishing to take advantage of off-peak power prices, a separate circuit for that. In general, the Australian power distribution system (like the data system the NBN is piggy-backing on) is barely up to capacity for the loads it is trying to handle now. Imagine the hue and cry from the power retailers when their "gold plated" systems start buckling under the load of multiple EVs in a street all plugging in at around the same time. Back to "brownouts" sound like fun?

Crikey, talk about obsessing over easily solved problems. Power supply, grid management, communication, storage, cars and trucks will all evolve together to manage most of the problems mentioned. And when systems fail, it won't be much different to the petrol station queues during fuel shortages that happened all too frequently in the 70's and 80's.

A thing that won't change is the ability of people to whinge about losing precious seconds out of their mundane lives waiting for queues to shift. Learn, adapt, calm down, enjoy life a little more.

Originally Posted by PhilipA

I often wonder at the insistance of EV advocates about how cheap an EV is to run.
Surely the issue is whole of life cost.
I did some back of envelope calculations yesterday on the cost of running a Tesla Model 3 vs a base Camry.
Model3 BASE at $55,000 Camry at $27000, both figures from internet sources.

After 10 years the operating cost of the Camry at say 10L per100Km at 20000 kms per year and $ 1.50 per litre =$30,000.
BUT most of that expenditure is out at least 5 -10 years which has a much lower net present value.(NPV)

I am not fussed enough to do the complete calculation at say 5% discount rate but the NPV of the fuel is much less than $30000 maybe approaching half of that.

Resale value . What is a Model 3 going to be worth in 10 years when the battery warranty is out? What will be the cost of a new battery $20K by the looks? A Camry will have some value maybe $5000. Based on the 400,000 mile Tesla , how many batteries will a model 3 need in 200,000K? One , two?

To All those rivet counters who say what about servicing costs registration etc.
I say how long will it be before Teslas will have an operating tax on them and how long will electricity be cheap? Not long from recent Government events.

The real costs are areas of pure speculation as so much is unknown about the future running costs of the Teslas and other EVs but the running costs of a Camry are pretty well known..

I always laugh at the idea of the Tesla X and Tesla whatever drivers who boast about their running costs . You would want cheap running costs after spending over $200K for one alright.

I think conventional and hybrids will be around for a very long time.
Regards Philip A

Your not factoring in that Petrol / diesel prices will rise as the cost of batteries will lower . Nor are you factoring in the resale value of petrol cars will be close to scrap value for the same reason

Apart from Tyres & wiper blades / washer fluid , Electric cars are basically maintenance free , No Exhaust / hoses / belts / oil / filters / plugs / cooling system etc etc & brakes last 10x longer (at least) . This is why Car salesman are anti-electric car and not selling them , because they are selling their service networks down the drain, where most of the money is made.

One battery will easily last 200k so long as its routinely not charged / drained 100% as per EV handbook.