EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Some food for thought.

- 80% of the worlds Lithium is in China.

- “Lithium” batteries contain 40 times more Graphite than Lithium, so are really “Graphite Batteries”

- Several other rarer metals are in the make up including Cobalt and Nickel

- Cobalt comes from DRC, Russia, Australia, Cuba, Madagascar, New Caledonia, Phillipines and South Africa

It’s expected all the above minerals will become more valuable than Gold.

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Spodumene lithium miners have been doing an amazing job yet the prices had been anything but stellar. They are moving now happily.

Australians very much in the field, some of who mine in other places including Europe in the snow and the US. PLL has moved to the USA with a tesla countract for supply to fill I think

"Lithium miner Pilbara Minerals has completed the acquisition of Altura Lithium, it said on Wednesday January 20.
The transaction makes Pilbara Minerals the 100% owner of the Altura project, which is adjacent to Pilbara’s existing spodumene operation in Western Australia.
Pilbara Minerals said the acquisition has created the largest independent hardrock lithium mining and processing operation in the world.

We might be kicking above our weight in Lithium and Graphite [thumbsupbig] o


On graphite, a western oz invention should have 2 tonnes of that stuff made to order for every tonne of hydrogen it makes.

One of the interesting changes in battery chemistry may see some of the other metals you mention cut out due to the damage they cause in a few locations. DRC is a bit rough around the edges apparently. With several non china so called giga-battery plants in construction in the US, Japan and Europe the demand for some of the mineral we have is not a mirage. Rare earths is another area China has dominated. A very Sneaky cool Australian Company at Meld Weld in WA a plant in Malaysia and now in Kalgoorlie struggled for a decade and is now a force plus with patented technology which is now being applied in a US site or two with us being paid to do it :)

The pollution and environmental damage done in China is a real concern for them. The advantages they only appeared to have in rare earth and some other products came at huge hidden costs for the Chinese people. It would be nice if they could settle down and stop the dummy spit they admit they are having with Australia and allow everyone to work together reasonably. [bigwhistle]

Europe is to stop selling petrol and diesel cars by 2035. It will be EVs only. This is a massive change and mimics what is happening in China.

Huge move will change cars we buy forever: Europe wants to ban petrol and diesel cars by 2035

Will be interesting to see if it happens.

As the opening paragraph says “one of the most ambitious”

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Originally Posted by bob10

Fast charging batteries, good for more range? A way to go yet, but getting there. From unsealed 4x4;




Unsealed 4X4 | Can fast-charging batteries make EV 4X4s remote-area capable?

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Interesting. Wonder what the heat generation is like during that process.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Europe is to stop selling petrol and diesel cars by 2035. It will be EVs only. This is a massive change and mimics what is happening in China.

Huge move will change cars we buy forever: Europe wants to ban petrol and diesel cars by 2035

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They better get a wriggle on building more power stations and increasing solar and battery installations then as they only have about 1/5th of the power generation currently to run all the vehicles in the EU should they all go EV.

I should clarify the actual proposed rule is to achieve zero tailpipe emissions. EVs and hydrogen can achieve zero emissions.

I have attached a report which show the performance of Electric buses in a few USA cities.

In Philadelphia they have discontinued use of them. In Duluth they have had to add diesel heaters to increase range.

All the buses are from one USA manufacturer, Proterra and cost USD 1Million each.

Now Griff who is I believe an Australian chimed in that 1000 had been sold so 25 or so wasnt indicative but it turns out only 375 have been delivered and many have not been put into service due to problems with siting chargers etc.

Sydney has some on order from China and recently boasted that they were going to replace the whole fleet. I hope the Chinese ones are better than the USA ones.

Report: Philadelphia’s Electric Bus Fleet in Complete Shambles – Watts Up With That?

Regards PhilipA

Looks like the OEM is going bust and didn't allow for or expect the problems that arose. Hopefully the Chinese units will be better - Any early tech has issues - this is a pretty big one though and the OEM isn't helping the perception by the sounds of it.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I should clarify the actual proposed rule is to achieve zero tailpipe emissions. EVs and hydrogen can achieve zero emissions.

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So essentially a game of ‘slight of hand’ [emoji41]

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

I have attached a report which show the performance of Electric buses in a few USA cities.

In Philadelphia they have discontinued use of them. In Duluth they have had to add diesel heaters to increase range.

All the buses are from one USA manufacturer, Proterra and cost USD 1Million each.

Now Griff who is I believe an Australian chimed in that 1000 had been sold so 25 or so wasnt indicative but it turns out only 375 have been delivered and many have not been put into service due to problems with siting chargers etc.

Sydney has some on order from China and recently boasted that they were going to replace the whole fleet. I hope the Chinese ones are better than the USA ones.

Report: Philadelphia’s Electric Bus Fleet in Complete Shambles – Watts Up With That?

Regards PhilipA

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They nailed the heavy BEV issue I think Phillip. "Structural and logistical problems—the weight of the powerful battery was cracking the vehicles’ chassis, and the battery life was insufficient for the city’s bus routes. " They are already heavy before you add a battery to a bus. A buss, semi trailers, trucks or ship weight a lot before you start. Adding huge batteries has to reduce payload before you consider the charging infrastructure and time required

The issues the already out dated 2016 'Proterra buses' ? going to the same time frame or further back is a report on the long term reliability of London FCEV buses. I have a little of the Canadian company - NOT A STOCK recommendation

"eight buses have logged more than 215,000 hours of service, covering 2 million km" One recently set an important milestone of 30,000 hours of continuous operation without replacement or repairs."

That is interesting if compared to "AS4536 “Life Cycle Costing – An Application Guide" which looks at:

1. Physical life – ends when the vehicle cannot provide acceptable service in reliability or maintenance.
2. Functional life – ends when the vehicle is obsolete, although this can simply trigger an upgrade programme.
3. Functional life is rare as most mandated upgrades are phased in to reduce waste.
4. Economic life – ends when the lowest life cycle cost is achieved.
   

In Oz Buses thats 20-25 years IF a great deal of maintenance and care is taken. Refits occur at about 15 years at "Volgren bodied buses are usually refitted for a cost rarely exceeding $20,000. Rust issues usually meant that any comparable steel bus would fetch a refit cost of $30,000 with some as high as $40,000"
4 minor services followed by a major service is reported

Fuel -40 litres per 100km seemed about average fuel cost Page 10 is the costings from the interesting 2016 Volgen bus report

Battery technology changes to solid state lithium and similar will change some of the numbers


On the FCEV side yet another one popped up today TotalEnergies Global Homepage - Renewables and Electricity, Natural Gas and Green Gases, Oil and Biofuels

TotalEnergies has joined the H2Accelerate group that is committed to working together to accelerate the deployment of green hydrogen for trucking.

Comprising of Daimler, IVECO, OMV, Shell and Volvo, the group will collaborate to create the conditions for the mass-market roll-out of hydrogen trucks in Europe.

As did Hyzon Motors with an announcement close to home here Hyzon Motors signs Memorandum of Understanding with Superior Pak for the supply of up to 20 refuse collection vehicles in 2022 " Superior Pak Australia supplier of Waste Management and Collection Equipment | Waste Collection Trucks - Waste Refuse Trucks - Garbage Collection Trucks

Hyzon claims they are ready now It seems 2022 is the date that keeps popping up


Westfarmers- Core gas "

• Coregas, a Wesfarmers company, has signed a vehicle supply agreement for two of Hyzon Motors’ hydrogen fuel cell-powered prime mover trucks, to be delivered in 2022
• Vehicles expected to be the first hydrogen-powered heavy trucks operating in Australia, deployed at Coregas’ hydrogen production facility in New South Wales
• Coregas expected to build the first commercial hydrogen refuelling station in Australia, collaborating with Hyzon to drive greater uptake of hydrogen-powered heavy-duty vehicles

"

China has a nibble with heavy battery based mining trucks which I feel might have the same issue and the 2016 Phili buses or my quirky Chinese MG EV :)


https://www.yutonghi.com/pro_cat/min...yAAEgLGFPD_BwE


Noting NKA Nikola motors with its proposed fuel cell trucks is still alive after a farcical event or two. [bigwhistle]