EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

The chat about cost of maintenance is a choice we can have or not. Loved my Disco just not the empty my wallet impact to enjoy the 100,000s km I took it on [thumbsupbig]

I am still amazed my car is yet to have its second service[bigrolf]

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Honestly, I think the people in here are so conditioned by the constant need for expensive heavy maintenance that they don't really see that it's even not possible to have it. "Everything is expensive.. it's just maintenance". The 4x4's we own are mechanically complex and require a lot of maintenance.

I've been on all the Tesla pages for a few years now. Tesla have sold a lot of cars in the last few years, many of which have done pretty substantive k's. I literally can't think of a ranty post by someone who has failed to proceed for any reason. Can't remember a single "my battery is toast" post. My motor is cooked. My electronics have let the smoke out. I really can't.

I'm sure the other EV's are good too. I've been on the BYD pages too and I also can't remember any big fail to proceeds. They probably have a few more niggles than tesla but no big ones.

Meanwhile I'm just keeping on spending the money in the hope we have some good years ahead where I spend less than 10k on maintenance a year. [bigwhistle] I literally cannot see why anyone who doesn't actively use the cars capability on a regular basis would run a 4x4. I do not understand why whole families would run them as their entire fleet when all they ever do is tow an occasional box trailer and drive around town. Sure if you really need a 4x4, but for the rest of us it's just insanity.

Owning one for a few years you realise the world keeps spinning. It's just a car with a battery.

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

I flatly refuse to own any crapbox that tries to steer or brake the car for me... I don't mean EVs when I say this, I mean any modern crapbox that thinks it knows better than me ... the driver.

seeya
Shane L.

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That part is one of the main reasons, other than financial, that would keep me out of anything new. I drove a 2023 Isuzu D-Max, and I swear it was trying to kill me. But they were chasing the NCAP 5 rating, and the only way for a dual cab ute to get that is with electronic nannying. If I had to drive one of those the first thing I'd do is burrow into the settings and disable them all, which kinda defeats the point.

BTW, I thought I was clear about manufacturers having to meet all legislations, which obviously include safety as well as emissions. They wouldn't worry too much about adding weight for safety if they had a freer rein on engines.

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Originally Posted by 101RRS

Of course you are [bighmmm]

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I think that you need to justify that statement, given that it no doubt also applies to me.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

I literally cannot see why anyone who doesn't actively use the cars capability on a regular basis would run a 4x4. I do not understand why whole families would run them as their entire fleet when all they ever do is tow an occasional box trailer and drive around town. Sure if you really need a 4x4, but for the rest of us it's just insanity.

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Unless, of course, their budget doesn't run to multiple vehicles. Or, like me, they no longer use the car every day to go to their place of employment. Not everyone can afford to keep a "trip vehicle", insured and registered, when they are not using it. "Insanity" is subjective.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

On my last trip we tripped over 185k. So I went back to 170k. Which is three years for me. Depending on trips. Regular maintenance has been 23100. Servicing, tyres, windscreen. All the usual stuff to stay on the road. This included a massive bill for a complete brake renewal, clutch renewal, various suspension bushes that was done just before the last trip. I do some stuff myself and which is mostly consumables which is oil etc which is probably not counted in that.

If you were including upgrades you would have to add another 4500 for replacing all the batteries and dual battery system and tow controller and wiring (batteries were 8 years old), 3400 for Koni Raid. Plus it was a couple of k for ECU and performance upgrades (sports exhaust!!). If you went back another couple of k to 168 you'd have 4k for an ashcroft ATB.

And all this excludes the $2200 for the airconditioning repairs. I've excluded that because that work is not finished because the stupid thing is not really working.

And It's currently at the specialist sorting a monumental fuel leak. "while your there change the pump". I expect that will be another 2k or more as the tank is rusty and might need some repairs. Damn LRA don't put great coatings on. :( It's got the original starter and alternator.. I'm nervously monitoring.

So we've had a couple of hard years. Lots of repairs that were just because the car is 20 years old.

Once we gave up on the grenadier there has been a few solid upgrades because we intend to keep the car.

If I'm honest I've heard our maintenance described as "premium maintenance". Because we really try to stay on top of it. Anything that even remotely looks to be departing specification is fixed. Because we only use it on trips, we try and make sure it's in 100% shape. Its not helping that parts now seem to have gotten much more expensive. Anyway - we take it out there and it goes like a rocket surrounded by modern cars. One of the NSW Toyota 4wd club trainers we had on our last trip described its performance as "Seriously impressive". We can do stuff in sand that no one else seems to be able to do. The specialist describes it as the best TD5 they see now.

So a friend of mine runs a lotus parts/engineering shop. He said that people who own V8 Esprit should budget 25k a year for maintenance. You won't spend it every year, but some years won't be great. I'm thinking the defender for us is probably a 10k maintenance a year car. Maybe a bit more if we don't have a few good years. Here is hoping.

I take on board that it's probably not depreciating much if at all. But that only helps if you sell it.

So yes, having an EV that so far has cost virtually $0 in maintenance and running has been a relief.

EDIT: in that 15k there has been two trips Brisbane to Birdsville, four desert crossings, and one trip to fraser for a couple of weeks. Probably only 2k in Brisbane.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

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Oh, your paying someone to service it .... Yeah, I'd think something like a massive fuel leak as a "shrug the shoulders" and spend an hour under it with $20 of fuel line replacing the 20year old lines ... so its good for another 20years.

Suspension bushes .... I did the ****box a while back. Its bugger all really ... less than a few hundred dollars and a weekend of tinkering and its good for another 150,000kms. I'd try to spend a premium and buy the best quality rubber bushes I could find.

Aftermarket stuff I'd avoid, initially it sounds good, but in the long term it costs a lot of money. Eg: duel battery system. Now the damn car is more difficutl to service and I'm upkeeping two batteries, two lots of wiring and battery isolating system. Its all great if it gets used, I found I never used the damn thing when I fitted a 2nd battery to the ****box, so I removed it and all the extra wiring (I used a traxide system which is brilliant).

A clutch at 180,000kms would be normal service work IMO if you tow or do heavy offroad work. If its just used as a "car" you will probably wear out the car before the clutch :)

See how my thinking is different 'cos I quite enjoy the tinkering/servicing bit myself. Its a different mindset... its almost like mental therapy rather than a stress (​unless its the primary driver, then every single hold up or break down is a big stress).

Its mind blowing that you would think something simple like a defender is a $10,000 a year upkeep type vehicle ... especially when its rarely used. I wouldn't have spent $10,000 servicing every car I own ... for everything they have needed in the last 20years. And I've never heard of anyone saying Citroens, poogoes and Range Rovers are cheap vehicles to run. Just amazing.

Can I service the defender for you? I'll do it cheap, lets say $8500 a year [bigrolf] [bigrolf]

seeya
Shane L.

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Originally Posted by Tins

Unless, of course, their budget doesn't run to multiple vehicles. Or, like me, they no longer use the car every day to go to their place of employment. Not everyone can afford to keep a "trip vehicle", insured and registered, when they are not using it. "Insanity" is subjective.

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Understood and I acknowledge that and I'm grateful that I can keep a trip car.

It should also be noted this situation was in part enabled because the Defender was the cheapest 4x4 on the market by a massive margin when we bought it. 46k Drive away.

Now all the basic 4x4's are very expensive with manufacturers trying (successfully in toyotas case) to charge more for less.

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Oh, your paying someone to service it .... Yeah, I'd think something like a massive fuel leak as a "shrug the shoulders" and spend an hour under it with $20 of fuel line replacing the 20year old lines ... so its good for another 20years.

Suspension bushes .... I did the ****box a while back. Its bugger all really ... less than a few hundred dollars and a weekend of tinkering and its good for another 150,000kms. I'd try to spend a premium and buy the best quality rubber bushes I could find.

Aftermarket stuff I'd avoid, initially it sounds good, but in the long term it costs a lot of money. Eg: duel battery system. Now the damn car is more difficutl to service and I'm upkeeping two batteries, two lots of wiring and battery isolating system. Its all great if it gets used, I found I never used the damn thing when I fitted a 2nd battery to the ****box, so I removed it and all the extra wiring (I used a traxide system which is brilliant).

A clutch at 180,000kms would be normal service work IMO if you tow or do heavy offroad work. If its just used as a "car" you will probably wear out the car before the clutch :)

See how my thinking is different 'cos I quite enjoy the tinkering/servicing bit myself. Its a different mindset... its almost like mental therapy rather than a stress (​unless its the primary driver, then every single hold up or break down is a big stress).

Its mind blowing that you would think something simple like a defender is a $10,000 a year upkeep type vehicle ... especially when its rarely used. I wouldn't have spent $10,000 servicing every car I own ... for everything they have needed in the last 20years. And I've never heard of anyone saying Citroens, poogoes and Range Rovers are cheap vehicles to run. Just amazing.

Can I service the defender for you? I'll do it cheap, lets say $8500 a year [bigrolf] [bigrolf]

seeya
Shane L.

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FYI The lines were fixed in 2016. The tank is corroded and i believe it's leaking around the pump. It's common for that brand of tank. A new fuel pump is nearly $1000 alone for an oem one. Should I put the old one back knowing it's original and probably will fail in the next few years resulting in me being stranded somehwere? I say no.

I applaud people doing their own maintenance. Bravo. I don't have the time or the facilities to do the big stuff. I do what I can.

If I was prepared to let the condition slide and go for "reactive" maintenance it would be cheaper for sure.

Also FYI it's getting rarer and rarer to see these cars still working. More is the shame. The whole 2.5 weeks out back I only saw one other defender at about Roma I think.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

FYI The lines were fixed in 2016. The tank is corroded and i believe it's leaking around the pump. It's common for that brand of tank. A new fuel pump is nearly $1000 alone for an oem one. Should I put the old one back knowing it's original and probably will fail in the next few years resulting in me being stranded somehwere? I say no.

I applaud people doing their own maintenance. Bravo. I don't have the time or the facilities to do the big stuff. I do what I can.

If I was prepared to let the condition slide and go for "reactive" maintenance it would be cheaper for sure.

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I'd leave the original pump there ... and if I was concerned carry a spare with me. You see, I don't trust any of the after market parts as far as I could kick them. Do you do beach driving? its interesting that the fuel tank would corrode in a country like australia! Most cars of its vintage have plastic fuel tanks.

$1000 for a fuel pump is nuts, you aren't confusing the diesel injection pump with the lift pump in the tank? If they aren't known for dying with age, there is no way in a million years I'd pay that [bighmmm]

To put htis into perspective, my father just purchased an old Citroen CX. Now you could spend tens of thousands of dollars "restoring" it in a vain attempt to make it reliable. Me? I'll spend about $100 of electrical connections. I know for a fact the main failure point on the cars is there wiring. So I'll spend a few weekends replacing every spade terminial on every relay housing around the battery and every electrical connection under the bonnet. This above any "restoring" will leave you with the most reliable 40year old car you could hope for. Like the defender the actual mechanical bits are very, very dependable if not messed with and "upgraded". Oh.... you haven't fitted an "upgraded" large capicty fuel tank by chance :)

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

I'd leave the original pump there ... and if I was concerned carry a spare with me. You see, I don't trust any of the after market parts as far as I could kick them. Do you do beach driving? its interesting that the fuel tank would corrode in a country like australia! Most cars of its vintage have plastic fuel tanks.

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I replaced the factory plastic tank with a Long Ranger 132l tank when the car was near new. The extra 50l capacity has been exceptionally handy.

The $1000 fuel pump is the VDO original that LR use. I can get a $400 aftermarket one but like you - no way.

By beach driving I think we're up to about 7 months on fraser so far. Part of that maintenance budget was reapplying all the underbody coatings which had worn off, and a replacement ERPS which had failed. Yes, my car is a 20 year old rust free defender. Apart from the tank. [bawl]