Thread: EV general discussion

Almost certainly in large part due to availability.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Almost certainly in large part due to availability.

And that a hybrid can at the least go beyond an extension cord

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Almost certainly in large part due to availability.

Partly,but cost would also be a huge factor.

Also Hybrids probably suit a lot more people than EV’s here in Aus.
Try looking for a charging station or a petrol station,one is slightly more common than the other.

Originally Posted by scarry

Partly,but cost would also be a huge factor.

Also Hybrids probably suit a lot more people than EV’s here in Aus.
Try looking for a charging station or a petrol station,one is slightly more common than the other.

Last year I had the opportunity to escape Victoria between lock-downs and traveled for 7 months through every mainland state and territory except Queensland covering over 20,000 Km. During this time I found ONE EV charging station and it wasn't at any service station or roadhouse I stopped at. It was sort of randomly plonked outside the pub in the rural Western Australian town of Katanning.


"
Now this could be pretty handy for the local CWA ladies ............................. "sorry Dear, but I'm stuck down the pub for a while, bloody battery's flat, you'll have to get your own dinner" Not a problem for the cockys of course as there's no EV 70 series that know of.

But realistically from my (rural) perspective EV's are for environmentally friendly cashed up woke city dwellers. Totally bloody useless in a practical sense except for very expensive urban commuting.

This charging station is the one and only EV charging station that I've ever seen, ever . I checked on line 12 months ago and there were no public EV charging stations within 40 Km of my home in West Gippsland, Victoria. So in my real (rural) world I find it a bit hard to take EV's seriously. To fork out $50K plus for a small car that can only be used as a local 'shopping trolley' is not really a viable proposition.

Which brings me to hybrid vehicles. Whilst in WA I got to drive a Toyota Yaris ZR hybrid which a mate had bought to replace the family (read missus') shopping trolley, previously a Honda R of all things At around $30K this was IMO a very good vehicle, I was quite impressed. If you're into vehicle 'consumer electronics' this car had it in spades, but putting that aside it drove, handled and stopped well, good ergonomics and very good fuel consumption (5-6 l/100Km) and easily capable of the Perth trip of around 700 Km with no problem. We're looking at replacing the family (read missus') shopping trolley soon and on performance/economy this could be a serious contender.

The bit I don't understand with hybrid vehicles is where's the efficiency/cost gain ? You have a petrol engine running a generator which charges a battery which drives an electric motor. Taking regenerative braking out of the equation, what's the gain over directly coupling the engine output to the drive train ? Surely this is more energy efficient than converting rotational energy to electricity storage energy and back again to rotational energy to propel the vehicle ? I don't know if I've used the right terms here but hopefully you get the idea Or is the gain in having a small motor/generator and combining this output with the battery output (sometimes) instead of having a larger capacity engine ? Or is the main efficiency improvement in using regenerative braking to put energy back into the battery ? On a long highway run I would not expect either of these efficiency's to make a significant difference.

Originally Posted by DeanoH

Last year I had the opportunity to escape Victoria between lock-downs and traveled for 7 months through every mainland state and territory except Queensland covering over 20,000 Km. During this time I found ONE EV charging station and it wasn't at any service station or roadhouse I stopped at. It was sort of randomly plonked outside the pub in the rural Western Australian town of Katanning.

Katanning EV charger.jpg

I dont go looking for them but the only one i have ever seen is at the local Winery.
And i recon that is only there as the owner of the place has a Tesla.
I have never seen it being used.

Originally Posted by scarry

Partly,but cost would also be a huge factor.

Also Hybrids probably suit a lot more people than EV’s here in Aus.
Try looking for a charging station or a petrol station,one is slightly more common than the other.

Ooh I dunno, Extension Leads aren't that expensive, but if you are talking 500km ones then that's a different story..

Reading an article today where they compared the mandate for EV Cars to the CO2 reduction program and diesel cars in Europe

Diesel cars sales quadrupled overnight but they forgot about oxides and lots of other stuff.

Raised all sorts of issues like a $35 billion revenue hole, roads falling apart due to heavier cars, more serious MVA's due to larger impacts due to mass, environmental impact due to mineral extraction, social issues due to labour exploitation & that even if all cars became electric would only save 8% of emissions.

Other issues were that basically the wealthy are buying the cars & still claiming the rebates while the less well off cant afford them + the wealthy have a second ICE car to do the stuff EV cant do well.

The other point was that think the best technology which addresses all of the above is further away than the European mandates.

Originally Posted by DeanoH

The bit I don't understand with hybrid vehicles is where's the efficiency/cost gain ? You have a petrol engine running a generator which charges a battery which drives an electric motor. Taking regenerative braking out of the equation, what's the gain over directly coupling the engine output to the drive train ? Surely this is more energy efficient than converting rotational energy to electricity storage energy and back again to rotational energy to propel the vehicle ? I don't know if I've used the right terms here but hopefully you get the idea Or is the gain in having a small motor/generator and combining this output with the battery output (sometimes) instead of having a larger capacity engine ? Or is the main efficiency improvement in using regenerative braking to put energy back into the battery ? On a long highway run I would not expect either of these efficiency's to make a significant difference.

My take on this is that you are making the mistake of thinking of the hybrid as an electric vehicle, so you are placing too much emphasis on the issue of the inefficiencies involved in converting energy.

My experience is with the Toyota Camry AVV50R hybrid, so some of my comments may not apply to other brands.

Even on the highway, the hybrid Camry has an advantage over similar non-hybrid vehicles. It uses an Atkinson Cycle engine rather than an Otto Cycle. I believe an Atkinson Cycle engine can be up to 30% more efficient.

The Atkinson ICE has a disadvantage; that is less torque at low revs. However, the electric power largely created by regenerative braking more than makes up for the reduced torque.

So around town, the Camry hybrid has all the advantages offered by regen braking. On the highway it has the advantage of a more fuel efficient engine without sacrificing any performance because of the electric power available.

EDIT: Toyota claim 5.4 l/100km for non hybrid Camry highway cycle and 4.5l/100km for hybrid. I assume that the degree of optimism is similar for both figures. So the Hybrid is a bit more efficient on the highway and much more efficient in the city.