Thread: EV general discussion

Originally Posted by JDNSW

To be fair to the dealer and their salesmen, if they have ICE cars on the floor they can deliver tomorrow, but there is a wait list of many months on EVs, and the meal they put on the table for their kids depends on the commission on their sales, do you really have to look for sinister motives? (Not to say that sinister motives do not exist, but these are not necessarily in play at present.)

And delays in repair may well be the result of lack of experience, lack of parts, and lack of skills with EVs.

Why car dealers don't want to sell electric vehicles | RenewEconomy

Originally Posted by Pickles2

You're talking about a "RAV" 4?....If so, the recently released model is built on a new platform, & the hybrid version is supposedly very good indeed.
Pickles.

Yes, and Toyota has two decades of experience with hybrids.

Don't forget Mitsubishi. They were ahead of Tesla with the all electric I-Miev back in 2009

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV will get an update that will see it do ~100km on battery alone. Up from ~50km on currently available model.

And Mitsubishi will be using the next generation of Toshiba SCIB batteries, which look very promising for longevity.

The battery for the upcoming outlander is probably less than 20kwh. Not a rediculous 100kwh+ as found in 400km+ BEVS. With the little petrol engine acting as a generator , you could use as little as 1litre per 100km (including battery charge assist). And ~500km of range added with every tank of petrol.


I think the townies who own one of these will hardly ever put any fuel in it!

PHEV is going to be the way into EVs for majority of Aussies I reckon .

Once people get to appreciate the cost savings and convenience of at home charging and battery only driving in their PHEV, they are more likely to consider a BEV next time round.

At the moment there are **** all charge points, with Tesla reserving their stations for Tesla only. So a fast uptake of BEV would not go well. In the short term I forsee PHEVs ****ing off minority BEV drivers by taking up public charge points even though they don't really need to plug in to get on!

Will be interesting to see what kind of battery only range the new PHEV defender gets.

Originally Posted by goingbush

Why car dealers don't want to sell electric vehicles | RenewEconomy

To quote from that article:-

"This is certainly supported by anecdotal evidence in Australia, where even if car dealers were enthusiastic about EVs (they are not) there just aren’t the cars there to sell."

This supports the point I was making - you can hardly blame dealers fro being unenthusiastic about selling something they do not have, and cannot get.

While the dealership may be concerned about the lack of servicing etc with EVs, this is hardly something the salesmen would be concerned about. And with EVs today costing a lot more than ICEVs, I assume that as the salesman's commission is a percentage of their sales, they make more on selling an EV. While EV proponents make a lot of the fact that EVs need less servicing, and this is to the disadvantage of dealers, it is, in my view, a minor issue compared to the fact that the vehicles are simply not available. And likely to be solved long term by dealers modifying their business model, already under threat from independent mechanics.

And then, of course, as I understand it, Tesla do not use dealers. Whether they can maintain this long term, and whether other manufacturers follow this model remains to be seen. It goes against the trend in all businesses over the last couple of decades to outsource everything possible.

Originally Posted by manic

Don't forget Mitsubishi. They were ahead of Tesla with the all electric I-Miev back in 2009

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV will get an update that will see it do ~100km on battery alone. Up from ~50km on currently available model.

And Mitsubishi will be using the next generation of Toshiba SCIB batteries, which look very promising for longevity.

The battery for the upcoming outlander is probably less than 20kwh. Not a rediculous 100kwh+ as found in 400km+ BEVS. With the little petrol engine acting as a generator , you could use as little as 1litre per 100km (including battery charge assist). And ~500km of range added with every tank of petrol.


I think the townies who own one of these will hardly ever put any fuel in it!

PHEV is going to be the way into EVs for majority of Aussies I reckon .

Once people get to appreciate the cost savings and convenience of at home charging and battery only driving in their PHEV, they are more likely to consider a BEV next time round.

At the moment there are **** all charge points, with Tesla reserving their stations for Tesla only. So a fast uptake of BEV would not go well. In the short term I forsee PHEVs ****ing off minority BEV drivers by taking up public charge points even though they don't really need to plug in to get on!

Will be interesting to see what kind of battery only range the new PHEV defender gets.

Yes, the PHEV Outlander seems a good thing.

The future may be a lot closer than I thought given the long term study by BMW with the words ready to commence once two blockers removed. Distribution refueling network and ROI on Hydrogen Production which is a fascination for this black duck. In an investment sense not weird science in the back yard.

BMW-i-Hydrogen-Next-3-768x1024.jpg

BMW Blog

http://BMW i Hydrogen NEXT Introduction – FCEV (Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle)

A huge plus for EVs in long range will be a little gem like this PowerCell Ms 30. I was looking at Power Cell Sweden due to a ship refit they are part of "Bergen-based system integrator Norwegian Electrical Systems (NES) intends to plant a 3.2MW hydrogen fuel cell onto a large vessel currently being designed by Havyard Design for the shipowner Havila. It would be the largest fuel cell ever placed on a major ship, replacing the more frequently used compressed gas. Batteries are planned to store additional energy to make the system fully emissions-free.
“The ability to move to a 3.2MW fuel cell that enables the vessel to sail zero-emission for long distances along the coast will be a milestone within green shipping,” said Stein Ruben Larsen, senior vice president" Link


Power Cell is also working with a Volvo Xc90 in a range extender test now . This is possibly part of this test with INN Balance.

Suspect the BMW /Toyota collaboration, Power-Cell, Others or a Canadian cool company I wont name as I invested a little bit; Will see several key changes and improvements with fuel Cells very quickly.

Storage is a big topic. We know mass transport of ammonia already occurs world wide and our cool CSIRO developed a method of storing Hydrogen as Ammonia and moving it back to hydrogen a few years ago now. This is discussed in Hydrogen Storage gets real here

My interest might be smaller for our cars in future and a tank with releases hydrogen safely if an accident occur is tucked away in my dream of making my old D3 a long range Hydrogen beast

This could have been in What we are doing while stuck at home. Add my few more weeks to walking with my currently re-broken leg and I clearly have to much time in my bad habit of a favorite topic.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

EVs have been around for something like 130 years. They were quite the thing in the period 1890-1910 for town cars.

According to this article, even longer than that.

However, it seems that about the turn of the century was the peak of their popularity.

The History of Electric Vehicles Began in 1830