EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by Homestar

2019 price was NOT $58K and I’m struggling to keep up with the discounts announced almost weekly by Tesla now. It’s still doesn’t add up using your figures from what I can work out.

And no - doing a calc using data we know NOW is not wacky at all. You could FORECAST something into the future if you want - knock yourself out. I’m dealing with known facts that have happened not speculation which it seems EV zealots are the best as because the FACTS don’t look good.

And if your power bills are $200 a year I’m sure you have solar and probably a battery - you need to take that cost into your calculations as well. You should say ‘my power costs $200 a year NOW - after I spent thousands on solar etc’ [emoji6]

I spent 15 minutes looking all this up on Google so feel free to run your own numbers and post them - as I said in my post I’m happy to be corrected on the figures for the EV as I don’t own one and am going on whatever I can find quickly.

It’s like shooting fish in a barrel… 🤣

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My car used 2800 kwh in it's fist year including charging losses. Yes I paid somewhat more than the deal I'm on now for some of it. Yes I have solar but no battery.

However, going forward. As I said - most providers have deals on electricity for EV's now.

I am on this plan. It's 8 c per kwh.

EV Power Up - Electric Vehicle Charging - Origin Energy

2800 * .08c = $224. That is how much it costs me to run my car. Actual figures. A M3 will be less. Sorry. What's that? A single tank of diesel for my defender?

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

In 2019, I don’t think the market demographic for the Tesla 3 would even have considered a Camry. They would have been making comparisons with luxury sports cars like the BMW 3 series.

Likewise, budget conscious Camry buyers would not have been considering a Tesla. In 2020 they may have considered the MG ZS EV if looking to go full electric.

It is only now as battery prices are coming down and we are seeing more competition from China would Toyota Camry buyers now be considering options like the BYD Seal or Toyota bZ4X. But like BMW buyers, Tesla buyers still wouldn’t consider a Camry as an alternative. Even my 2008 BMW 320d drives better than a new Camry, is more enjoyable to own, and is much better value for money. By comparison the Camry is a soulless car.

So if wanting to do retrospective cost of ownership comparisons, you should be comparing a 2019 Tesla 3 with a BMW 3 series, or a 2020 Hybrid Camry with a MG ZS EV.

But unless you are buying a fleet for a company do people seriously make new car buying decisions based on the total cost of ownership. If total cost of ownership is the true driver then you would buy a low km second hand car and avoid the big depreciation hit new cars have (this is not financial advice!).

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We seem to be in some weird loop where we're trying to calculate whether we would have been better off being an EV early adopter a few years ago. Which personally I don't see much value in. Personally I looked at it at it as far back as 2016. I came to the conclusion I was better off to put solar on than deal with EV's of the time.

And no.. I don't think many people would consider a Camry to be a model 3 alternative. But there you go.

Of course "Early Adopters" thought that they were saving the World with their Teslas and others.

Now reality has set in and Tesla has 46000 on grass in the USA . This is typical of the "Early Adopter" curve which affected new car releases even 50 years ago.

I was amused to see that in the USA the dept of Environment has installed 7 charging stations since being given $7 BILLION 2 years ago. They plan 500,000 in another 2 years ROFL.

It still amuses me that you seem to think that the cost of your electricity is a major factor in your ownership decision when all the evidence coming forward indicates that coal and gas will be major sources of power at night for the foreseeable future and there is now irrefutable evidence of child labour featuring large in the mining of minerals , and also that coal power is used to make the batteries. In addition you are relying on the fiat of government for your benefits ie not taxing your KW and providing no taxation for highway upkeep.
How does this compute with saving the World or being a good citizen?
Talk about "Reverse Robin Hood" taxing the poor to provide welfare for the rich.
Regards PhilipA

I'm working on my old car. Water in oil so engine out and while i'm going a gearbox rebuild.

Anyone who thinks EV's are complex really needs to have a think about how amazingly improbable ICE drivetrains are. It's literally insane and illogical all rolled up. Burn air and push on stuff to convert to rotational energy. All while not catching fire, melting, and while keeping the oil, the fuel, and the water apart while being processed in the one device. It's easy to forget that it's taken more than 100 years of manufacturing refinement to get to where we are now. I am convinced that ICE cars will become like old aircraft. We could never build a concorde again now because we have simply lost the ability to do it.

Yes EV's have considerable electronic complexity but mechanically they are much simpler. At the same time they have taken such a big technological jump. The interface and use experience has moved on. It's comical watching my Daughter who has now done the majority of her driving on an EV struggle with an ICE car. I watch her drive off without the lights on, or walk up to it and try to get into a locked car. Manage a handbrake start on a hill. All comical.

I remain convinced that in 20 years time we're going to look back and laugh at all this. Look at that old ice car. How quaint.

Funny thing is that many/most seem to hate the "modern" conveniences like lane keeping, accident warning, stop start, etc.
Over time it will become more evident what is good and what is dross.
I understand VW is now reducing things included in menus on screens and reverting to buttons as that is what the customers want.
YOU may like your do dads but do the majority of the population may not.
BTW, all the things you mention are not things that are exclusive to EVs but can be incorporated into ICE vehicles which are now just as computer centric as EVs.

I was puzzled a while ago that the AC in my 2018 Everest would not go onto highish fan. It turns out that it was because the drivers door was ajar and even when closed did not rectify until the next start. This is the type of glitch that happens when everything is controlled by a computer.

Also wait until your screen craps itself. You will not be able to do anything at all in the car. This has happened often in fact I understand to most pre 2018 Teslas.
Regards PhilipA

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

And no.. I don't think many people would consider a Camry to be a model 3 alternative. But there you go.

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Um, it was you that compared them in the first place….

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

I don't think many people would consider a Camry to be a model 3 alternative.

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Why would anyone consider a Camry as an alternative to a Tesla or indeed any full time EV - Camry is an ICE vehicle that uses an electric motor to get going - that is the only EV thing about it - Camry and full EV are completely different vehicles.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

............And no.. I don't think many people would consider a Camry to be a model 3 alternative. But there you go.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

Um, it was you that compared them in the first place….

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Originally Posted by 101RRS

Why would anyone consider a Camry as an alternative to a Tesla or indeed any full time EV - Camry is an ICE vehicle that uses an electric motor to get going - that is the only EV thing about it - Camry and full EV are completely different vehicles.

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I think the only Toyota product that could fairly compared to a Tesla would have to be a Lexus.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

........

Yes EV's have considerable electronic complexity but mechanically they are much simpler. At the same time they have taken such a big technological jump. The interface and use experience has moved on. It's comical watching my Daughter who has now done the majority of her driving on an EV struggle with an ICE car. I watch her drive off without the lights on, or walk up to it and try to get into a locked car. Manage a handbrake start on a hill. All comical.

I remain convinced that in 20 years time we're going to look back and laugh at all this. Look at that old ice car. How quaint.

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I'm not so sure as ICE cars have character, it's like how jet planes are supposed to be better, faster, louder than the old ones, but in films I love the sound of the old piston engine planes, the jets leave me cold. Some of the first cars where electric and Henry Ford's wife had one, so the ladies loved them as much cleaner, quieter, etc but gents loved the complexities of the petrol cars. 1914 Detroit Electric Model 47 Brougham, Personal Car of Clara Ford - The Henry Ford

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Originally Posted by Homestar

Um, it was you that compared them in the first place….

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That's because you started saying "I'd much rather have a camry hybrid"!! LOL