Tested one and it could tow yet no idea how far😬 just found this 2000kg tow test . We aren't there yet🥱. https://youtu.be/v3s4iKZ6qgc'si=XAuhM5rwc8mukII8
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Tested one and it could tow yet no idea how far😬 just found this 2000kg tow test . We aren't there yet🥱. https://youtu.be/v3s4iKZ6qgc'si=XAuhM5rwc8mukII8
Definitely, my BiL used to buy ten new cars at a time, every second year. All Fords, from top spec Fairlanes to pov pack utes and vans. Along came Hyundai et al, and the depreciation accelerated to the point that turnover was extended to five years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot
There are far more el cheapo, Chinese options these days, either ICE or EV, that second hand prices will plummet after 2~3 years.
Quite entertaining. Let's try to be objective then. I would argue that the interior appointment, the fit and finish, the build quality and reliability of a toyota is, has been and possibly for the foreseeable future will be miles ahead of a tesla (model 3 and s certainly). Also even the fairly large Camry still weighs considerably less than that overweight bumper car that is the model 3, nevermind the model S that weighs more than my bloody range rover! Also, the ride quality is appalling as far as I am concerned. Admittedly, the camry's CVT is not the most refined way of driving either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot
Now about power. That is the most annoying thing about EVangelists imho. We have known how to build powerful electric motors for, oh, 100 years or so? It's actually not that hard and the nature of an electric motor means torque and power over a fairly wide band from the get go. So, yes, an EV that can do 0-60 in 2 seconds... I just don't find that impressive, at all, what so ever. It's the nature of the beast but it is being used to slap petrolheads around the head with since we have used that metric for so long. I would argue that it is WAY more impressive and certainly a lot more difficult to get that kind of performance out of a complex mechanical machine like an ICE. But let's turn this the other way around. A tesla model s (not sure about the 3) tops out at 190kph. If I do that with my 25 year old honda legend (which is quieter than a model S btw in the cabin) I can do that for 2,5hrs straight on the autobahn and fill up in 5 minutes to be on my way again. (and yes I have done that from munich, I worked for BMW funny enough, back home) Let's see an EV do that...
I know, I know, this is oz and not Germany and what not, but the fact I am trying to convey here: it's hard for an EV to do that but easy for an ICE. In other words, when an EV comes around that is capable of such a feat, that WOULD be impressive.
And finally I personally do not like touch screens in my car. Again, I know in oz not a problem but try northern european winters where one drives with a big fat coat on and gloves... The UI of a tesla (or other touch screen vehicle) is worthless. And regarding the internet connectivity I can have apple carplay or android auto and that's good enough. My car does not need a simcard, I do not WANT my car to have a simcard thank you very much.
BTW
Can I start my AC with an app? yes/no. I have a viper car alarm which has been around for decades and it has a remote start function. Whenever I get ready to leave I press a button (on the very long range remote btw) and the ICE will fire up and the climate control will do it's thing, heating in winter, cooling in summer. That "feature" has been around for, oh, 30 years or so. Viper now also have a version that works with an app but I never bothered to upgrade. Maybe if this one breaks.
To conclude, I find an EV to not be the "revolution" it is made out to be, it is an evolution at most and one with as many downsides, features, and perks as that what came before it just in different points. The only reason that they MAY have some bonuses like running costs are currently artificially kept up by rebates, government sponsoring and (also a form of government sponsoring I guess) a lack of equal taxation of both the fuel and ownership of an EV (at least here in europe, but most likely also in oz).
Cheers,
-P
This thread goes on and on - going around in circles endlessly covering the same things over and over.
EVs in their modern form is relatively new technology and will take time to sort themselves out. They have their strengths and weaknesses.
ICE vehicles obviously have been around for a very long time and have an advantage of having infrastructure in place and like EVs they have their strengths and weaknesses.
FFS lets stop knocking each of them endlessly and as you would buy anything else, just buy what suits you.
Garry
Everything has emissions, including viewing this web page, as it is basically emitting CO2 on a computer and/or at a data centre somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot
It seems EV's are half the emissions of a petrol according to the below article, even including the building and decommissioning. More embodied CO2 during manufacture but equalises at about 38 000k's and just gets better from there. Are electric cars better for the environment than fuel-powered cars? Here's the verdict - ABC News
The only green car trip is one you don't make. If you want to reduce your carbon emissions from transport you should walk, cycle, take public transport. These options work and make a meaningful difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by RANDLOVER
Unfortunately - it's not always possible to do this. For an endless number of reasons. These reasons generally range from necessity right through to choice or prefference.
So if you have to drive an EV is likely less bad. [bigwhistle] If they are suitable it would be helpful if more people considered them when buying another car.
Personally that's my take.
Yes I agree - although there is a lot of people in here who won't consider for some reasons that I reckon are pretty wild. "I just reckon Camry's are better" etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by 101RRS
My argument all along is that the crazy proliferation of SUV's and UTEs in Australia is insane. We don't all need to have cars capable of this stuff. Just looking at the streets around me here in inner suburban Brisbane all the families. So many people.. both cars in the family are either a 4x4 UTE or an SUV. House up the street has four ute/suv's and a little nissan. My new neighbours have a Ranger for dad and a big Jeep thing for Mum. These things are breeding. No one's garage in this suburb can fit these cars because they were all designed when cars were smaller. How did people manage? When I moved in here everyone kept their cars inside - and now they all have to live on the street. Further few if any show any signs of actually being used for their purpose.
And in this thread if I mention that probably this is a bit un-necessary it's on. "EV's are useless". Given that people are unwilling/unable to walk, cycle or catch public transport to help the climate. Do you reckon we could just get them to consider maybe one family car being an EV rather than a giant SUV? FFS?
Further on the above - people in here need to have a serious look at how they perceive cars. Every one of my cars has a purpose. That's fine. But we need to acknowledge that EV's are actually really good at some things. Towing your monster boat or caravan probably not. Driving up the beach not so. ETC. But for driving around the city, and actually as a highway car they are pretty darn good.
I drove my Defender to the mechanic on Monday. Normally I ride home from there but couldn't due to work issues. Anyway got a pickup in the EV. OMG it is so good at this type of trip. It's insanely comfortable by comparison. Quiet. Rides so nice! I just get in and it all works. I shake my head in disbelief at anyone who chooses to drive a defender around town by choice. Yes I understand that for many it might be their only car.. but man if you have another choice..
Anyway this article needs to be updated but the point holds. Yes modern cars have gotten more economical. But we've just bought bigger cars and driven them more so we're not any better off.
Myth: Cars are becoming more fuel efficient – Public Transport Users Association
IMHO if the haters in this thread really wanted to actually hit EV's where it hurts - this is what they should be pointing out. Because EV's cost less to run - people will just drive them more which will negate the climate benefits of EV's. Will anyone in here actually notice this point?
In economics, the Jevons paradox (/ˈdʒɛvənz/; sometimes Jevons effect) occurs when technological progress increases the efficiency with which a resource is used (reducing the amount necessary for any one use), but the falling cost of use induces increases in demand enough that resource use is increased, rather than reduced.[1][2][3] Governments typically assume that efficiency gains will lower resource consumption, ignoring the possibility of the paradox arising.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons...0rather%20than
Mate, that is what freedom of choice in a democracy is all about.Quote:
My argument all along is that the crazy proliferation of SUV's and UTEs in Australia is insane. We don't all need to have cars capable of this stuff. Just looking at the streets around me here in inner suburban Brisbane all the families. So many people.. both cars in the family are either a 4x4 UTE or an SUV. House up the street has four ute/suv's and a little nissan. My new neighbours have a Ranger for dad and a big Jeep thing for Mum. These things are breeding. No one's garage in this suburb can fit these cars because they were all designed when cars were smaller. How did people manage? When I moved in here everyone kept their cars inside - and now they all have to live on the street. Further few if any show any signs of actually being used for their purpose.
The same applies to supermarkets. Do we need umpteen brands of butter for example? No we don't but that is what freedom is about.
Do we need umpteen colours and designs for houses? No but that is freedom. we can all live in Soviet style high rises.
Would it make you happy if there were no supermarkets, no individual houses?
Sounds like Russia to me.
Regards PhilipA
It's not Russia. And there is a cost to society of everyone driving 4x4s around the city. Pollution, emissions, and frankly it has several other negative effects in crowded cities. Lets not forget that major cities are home to over 73% of our population.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipA
All I'm suggesting is that when the time for another vehicle comes up, that they consider if an EV would meet their needs. Maybe just one SUV out of the household?
If nothing else, because you'll save a motza by comparison? I had to go out on Sunday and did 200k. The cost of that in fuel in the defender is around $48 (12l/100). If I did it one of those lusted after camry hybrids at 4l/100 - that's still $16. The energy cost to me was $2.40? Is that not enough to warrant consideration? Are you that committed to always driving an SUV?