Thread: EV general discussion

At least its another write off I mean, even if you COULD fix it nobody wants to touch them or have them in their body shops...

-P

"The EV market has become so “unsustainable” that a Wicklow car dealership no longer accepts them as trade-ins. "
There is a link to her radio interview
‘Such a big risk’ – The car dealership that won’t buy electric vehicles | Newstalk

The major risk is probably not being able to get parts, in particular panels and trim items such as fancy lights and sensors at a predictable price or in a predictable time frame, making repair quotes virtually impossible. This is largely a function of most EVs not coming from traditional manufacturers (even in some cases where they have a traditional manufacturer's badge), and with the fact that most of them are relatively new models, and especially in Australia, are sold (so far at least) in tiny numbers for each model.

This is not peculiar to EVs - I can remember similar issues when Japanese manufacturers were stating to appear in Australia, and more recently with Korean and even more recently Chinese ones. (Not to mention many repairers attitude when faced with a Landrover!)

Originally Posted by JDNSW

This is not peculiar to EVs - I can remember similar issues when Japanese manufacturers were stating to appear in Australia, and more recently with Korean and even more recently Chinese ones. (Not to mention many repairers attitude when faced with a Landrover!)

To be fair, those early Japanese cars, Toyota KE10/11 Corollas, RT40 Coronas, MS45 Crowns, Datsun 1000/1200 etc didn't require repairs for ages after their purchase, other than collision ones. The Japanese "Big Three" ( Mitsubishi was represented by the Colt ) very quickly ramped up supply to the foreign to them markets. And Toyota's commitment to resolving engineering problems, particularly on LandCruisers on the Snowy, was legendary. When Daihatsu entered the small car fray with the 3 cyl Charade all parts were in the inventory prior to release. We got parts before the first car arrived. Other than service parts and panels, we never needed them.

Biggest issue with crashed EVs seems to be that nobody wants the things anywhere near their premises, or other vehicles, due to the astonishing risk of severe, catastrophic fires. In the UK it appears that only the Govt's desire to put a shining face on the things prevents them from becoming even more uninsurable than a Range Rover, for totally different reasons. Can't begin to imagine what the insurers there think of an all electric Rangie. Fire and theft has a whole new connotation.

Seen that video too, yes. (for a guy who has basically written off electric vehicles for the foreseeable future I do still watch it a lot hmm?)

Repairability was an issue with fuel injection and basically every new fancy thing as well. I just watched a video on the new honda generator the eu32i in which some bloke claimed that injectors and such are a bigger problem to be repaired and maintained and ever more expensive than the old carby setups. It's like hearing discussions from the late 70's early 80's all over The point IS valid, but how much so?

The biggest problem with EV's is the fire risk which is relatively low but the consequences can be very high and that's just an average EV on the street. By the time a car gets damaged though that's where the fun starts. With a petrol or diesel car you know it'll be fine once the car pulls up on the flatbed at your shop. If it was going to burn, it would have done so. From that point forward the chances of the car combusting or you getting seriously injured is either extremely low OR in you hands. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Not so with the EV's. Even if you had plenty of spares around AND if you are very keen with electronics, the battery pack is and remains a huge risk. There was a time when replaceable batteries were suggested that bolted to the bottom of the vehicle. That would in theory, assuming the crash was not bad enough to jam the pack stuck, help a lot since you could drop the battery pack outside and move the vehicle in to work on it. The risks would be the same as an ICE (or even less since effectively it would not even have a partial tank of fuel).

I think that that is the problem for now and probably the foreseeable future as well. I don't think we can change that with the current technology and it's up to us to decide if we find that acceptable. The people who have made it their business to sell and maintain cars (and make a living) seem to think it is not.

-P

Originally Posted by prelude

I just watched a video on the new honda generator the eu32i in which some bloke claimed that injectors and such are a bigger problem to be repaired and maintained and ever more expensive than the old carby setups. It's like hearing discussions from the late 70's early 80's all over The point IS valid, but how much so?

Stihl has the MS500i injected chainsaw. Son has one. It's brilliant. First time, every time.

Originally Posted by prelude

There was a time when replaceable batteries were suggested that bolted to the bottom of the vehicle. That would in theory, assuming the crash was not bad enough to jam the pack stuck, help a lot since you could drop the battery pack outside and move the vehicle in to work on it.

-P

Any volunteers? Not me. BTW, the famous and very embarrassing truck fires here, the batts were removable for quick turnaround. Not sure that part of the tech is ready either.....

Govt here has just completed a new multistory carpark at the local terminus station. Not interested enough to count them, but there were maybe six chargers right at the front door. The cynical would say that they are there to give our betters quicker access to their trains, but I wondered if it's to give the fieries easier access to the IEDs.

That raises another question for me. The local fire brigade is CFA. They are mostly volunteers and are very much the poorer relative of the MFB. Are they equipped to deal with a potential multi EV fire?

Originally Posted by Tins

To be fair, those early Japanese cars, Toyota KE10/11 Corollas, RT40 Coronas, MS45 Crowns, Datsun 1000/1200 etc didn't require repairs for ages after their purchase, other than collision ones. The Japanese "Big Three" ( Mitsubishi was represented by the Colt ) very quickly ramped up supply to the foreign to them markets. And Toyota's commitment to resolving engineering problems, particularly on LandCruisers on the Snowy, was legendary. When Daihatsu entered the small car fray with the 3 cyl Charade all parts were in the inventory prior to release. We got parts before the first car arrived. Other than service parts and panels, we never needed them.

Biggest issue with crashed EVs seems to be that nobody wants the things anywhere near their premises, or other vehicles, due to the astonishing risk of severe, catastrophic fires. In the UK it appears that only the Govt's desire to put a shining face on the things prevents them from becoming even more uninsurable than a Range Rover, for totally different reasons. Can't begin to imagine what the insurers there think of an all electric Rangie. Fire and theft has a whole new connotation.

Hmmm! selective memory?

I think back to 1963 - one of my colleagues bought a Mitsubishi Colt. The vinyl upholstery lasted about three months in western Qld sun. Replacements? Warranty? Don't be silly! Our responsibility ended when we sold it to you!

Earlier in the same year - on a station near (not very near) Aramac - their Landcruiser, bought in a flurry of expectation around 1960, was out of service waiting on a clutch. Had been for months. They were using their old, battered Series 1, no windscreen, no doors, no seat cushions (except driver). You could get parts for it from the dealer in Longreach.

Or my experience managing a fleet of new Landcruisers in the Simpson in 1965-6. We had plenty of spares, but of course the bit needed was rarely the one we had on hand - and even if parts could arrive in Alice within a couple of weeks, they were often the wrong part.

The Japanese established a generally good reputation, but only after they had a major presence in the country (either their own or with an existing organisation). This took years. A lot longer than it should today with better communications. Remember, in the early sixties, long distance phone calls were not considered a normal way of doing business - it was all by mail. And airmail cost more!