Thread: EV general discussion

A couple of points. A quick Google search revealed.

Why is VinFast losing money?





VinFast's ​third-quarter loss widened to 24 trillion dong ($910.85 million) *from 13.25 trillion dong a year ago. Quarterly gross margin was negative 56.2%, compared with negative 24% last year, largely attributed to higher warranty provision rates and cost of vehicles sold, VinFast said.21 Nov 2025

A note on acceptance of Japanese vehicleslt)


When Japanese vehicles were first introduced many fell by the wayside up until today even. Prince ( taken over by Nissan) , Hino ( no more cars, owned by Toyota), Mazda (rescued by Ford) subsequently recovered 5% owned by Toyota, Nissan ( merged with Renault) Subaru ( majority owned by Toyota)
Nissan is reported to have 3% market share in Japan so writing on the wall.

Korea. The Korean industry was developed using Japanese technology. Mitsubishi supplied almost all of the mechanical parts for Hyundai and Kia ( which are the same conglomerate or Chaebol), So much so that the Hyundai Galloper was an old body on Frame Pajero. So really the market soon got to know that the cars were actually Japanese in cheaper wrapping.
Which Chinese brand are you going to buy?
Regards PhilipA

Originally Posted by V8Ian

How did we know you'd bag it? EVs are no more throw away than any modern vehicle
Your constant claim of electric throw away, indicates that you are trying to convince yourself, rather than us.

I'm not trying to convinced anyone of anything. Electric bikes in remote areas and countries like vietnam don't make a lot of sense. How do the remote areas have reliable enough infrastructure to run one. Maybe the capital cities where there is reliable power and charging infrastructure makes sense.

If I was to visit vietnam tomorrow, the last thing I'd want is an EV of any sort if I was travelling the country. I just don't get this lack of common sense approach to everything.

Originally Posted by NavyDiver

Timeframe is a legitimate question. Death and taxes only certainty "The Cycle of Automotive Skepticism."

Charging availability and quality are reasonable questions. Years ago, Japanese cars were bagged as cheap and nasty by Ford/Holden mad aussies. My Lada ute was both those thing The Korean cars took the can from Japan for a while.

Its not really comparable to EVs though. They weren't a different type of powered propulsion .... eg: steam, hydrogen, battery etc...

If you drove a Datsun or early Toyota in 1970s Australia, you were often ridiculed by the Ford/Holden faithful. The perception was that Japanese tin was thin rust buckets, the engines were like sewing machines, and they wouldn't last a summer on corrugated corrugated roads.

The Reality: They were actually over-engineered. They didn't leak oil like the British cars, and they started every time. The Result: Toyota may now be the undisputed king of the Australian bush? The skepticism was wrong; the "nasty" cars were actually just better than what we were used to.

Skepticism is a healthy survival instinct. Not every new entrant is a hidden gem. Lada (and to an extent, the early Proton Jumbucks) failed because they didn't solve the core problems of Australian driving. They rusted, the plastics turned to dust, and the electrics were a suggestion rather than a system. Great fun on the beach fishing and outback untill the gear box or rust over came them

Yeah for sure, I'd be the same now with the cheap chinese cars (no ev of course). I'd be hesitant to drive one into remote areas, though I'm sure it would be fine.

In the 90s, the Hyundai Excel was $13,990 drive-away. It was seen as a disposable car. If you bought a Kia, people asked if it came with a spare ham. They were viewed as the "Lada" of the 90s. The Reality: They were rough but rapidly improving. They hired European designers and German engineers.

The Result: Today, a Hyundai Ioniq 5 or a Kia EV6 is considered premium tech. They are winning "Car of the Year" awards over Mercedes and BMW. The "cheap" tag is long gone

Maybe, they are now all very complex cars. I wouldn't want to own any of them as the come off warranty.

We are currently treating EVs (and specifically the Chinese brands like BYD and MG) exactly how we treated Japanese cars in the 70s and Korean cars in the 90s. Pretty sure Electric Jesus comment on Chinese EVs a few years ago would be embarrassing for most of us. He is special of course

The "Range" is the new "Reliability": Decades ago, you carried a spare fan belt and radiator hose in the boot of the Kingswood. Today, I plan my trip around charging stops which does take a time hit some cannot afford.

EV charging availability as a "reasonable question." It is the legitimate hurdle of this generation.

I would agree if you were just talking chinese cars, but with EVs your talking a completely different technology that has massive drawback that are almost impossible to overcome with scale. While they are less then maybe 20% of the car market and in the hands of the wealthy, everything might sort of work.

• Japanese cars had to prove they wouldn't fall apart.
• Korean cars had to prove they weren't disposable.
• EVs don't have to prove the car works (the motors are million-kilometer units); they have to prove the network works.

If history repeats itself, in a few years, worrying about finding a charger will feel as outdated as worrying about a Toyota overheating on the Hume Highway.
It's not here yet clearly. My disco with long range tanks was a tool to replicate. I don't think I mentioned how small most of the cars in the UK were? Petrol or EVs. Most of them might look funny plus on a trip up the Hume or a lap around Oz

The good thing here is we will find out in time. EVs have there place, this doesn't include remote areas, unless your someone that is out for a challenge to prove it can be done. This is fine with me. After all, I'm doing the same thing with my old ****boxes everytime I leave suburbia. I like EVs themselves, but think they are stupid, basically they will remove transport or the ability to own a car from "the poor". As they will never reach the 3rd tier of owner ... Its highly improbable there will be a large number of 15'ish year old EVs cruising the roads being run a shoe string in the hands of the less wealthy (like we have at the moment with cars of that age).

seeya
Shane L.

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

I'm not trying to convinced anyone of anything. Electric bikes in remote areas and countries like vietnam don't make a lot of sense. How do the remote areas have reliable enough infrastructure to run one. Maybe the capital cities where there is reliable power and charging infrastructure makes sense.

If I was to visit vietnam tomorrow, the last thing I'd want is an EV of any sort if I was travelling the country. I just don't get this lack of common sense approach to everything.

Except for the 40 million people that do live in urban areas and only need to travel within 10-20km of where they live it may make a lot of sense for them. Electricity in Vietnam is very low cost at about 12c/kwhr.

Even those in rural areas rarely do long distance trips and you only need access to a power socket to charge an electric bike.

There is a good reason Vietnam has one of the largest electric bike markets in the world. Great for reducing smog pollution in the cities and low cost to run. Even battery swapping stations are on the rise in the cities making electric bikes even more convenient.

May not suit your personal needs, but to claim it lacks common sense for everyone else is not true. For some it won’t be suitable but for many it can make a lot of good sense to go electric.

Originally Posted by DiscoDB

Except for the 40 million people that do live in urban areas and only need to travel within 10-20km of where they live it may make a lot of sense for them. Electricity in Vietnam is very low cost at about 12c/kwhr.

Even those in rural areas rarely do long distance trips and you only need access to a power socket to charge an electric bike.

There is a good reason Vietnam has one of the largest electric bike markets in the world. Great for reducing smog pollution in the cities and low cost to run. Even battery swapping stations are on the rise in the cities making electric bikes even more convenient.

May not suit your personal needs, but to claim it lacks common sense for everyone else is not true. For some it won’t be suitable but for many it can make a lot of good sense to go electric.

That is entirely possible if they are only travelling that sort of milage each day. maybe I'll get to visit vietnam some day and see how its working out. Though google is saying its only a tiny percentage of motorbikes there that are electric ( 10 -> 15%). Though is does sound like they have some great manufacturers making electric bikes coming online (I wonder if they will sell them overseas?). Imagine how cheap bikes made in vietnam would be if sold in 1st world countries.

Originally Posted by DiscoDB

...................
There is a good reason Vietnam has one of the largest electric bike markets in the world. Great for reducing smog pollution in the cities and low cost to run. .................

Pretty sure not that long ago all the 2 strokes were to be phased out there and now there are none.

Didn't take long.

DL

I have spent a lot of time in Vietnam and you don’t do long distance trips by road. Takes too long and is too dangerous.

Even city driving takes a long time to go a short distance. If your driver can average 20kph they are doing well. Bikes are quicker and far more popular way for the locals to get around.

To travel say 600km by road can take up to 18-20 hours. Realistically if going by road you may cover up to 200km in a day if self-driving. Even 400km as a passenger is exhausting.

You are much better off to fly between the cities and regional towns than do a long distance road trip. Flying is cheap - most cases less than $100 and often less than $50 between the cities and regional centres.

Originally Posted by 350RRC

Pretty sure not that long ago all the 2 strokes were to be phased out there and now there are none.

Didn't take long.

DL

In the major cities in Vietnam it is expected most new bikes will end up being electric in the next 5-10 years. It will be pushed with banning new petrol bikes from being allowed to be registered on ride sharing apps.

Hanoi plans to progressively ban petrol bikes from the city ring roads starting later this year - but it is all about curbing air pollution as they rate as one of the worst air quality cities in the world. The locals don’t like to walk, public transport options are limited, and so the city streets are just filled with swarms of motor bikes.